Hattrick - User contributions [en]

User:Catalyst2950

2012-02-09T22:11:49Z

Catalyst2950:

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

In July 2009, Some Finnish Metal-Elf-Dude named jhattara accidentally banned a spammer from editing The Croatian One's wiki page and filling it with content more useful than this one, instead of the other way round. Subsequently, Some Finnish Metal-Elf-Dude had been banned from banning people, as his judgement was not to be trusted anymore.

In late 2011, this most-known Croat of all time renamed himself to Annealyst2950, the name sparkling an unprecedented three-month forum ban by a Swedish guy whom he had [http://www.konoba-didovsan.com/index.php?lang=en dinner] with a couple of years ago. Annealyst then finally decided to quit Hattrick and enjoy the actually finer things in life, such as his cat vomiting on the carpet at four in the morning, his boss being an idiot, or having tension headaches emanating from his neck. Life, as it turned out to be, was actually much better that way, and there was time to do fun stuff.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users|Catalyst2950]]

Hatsticks

2009-09-08T12:35:41Z

Catalyst2950: who found which eggs, plus minor spelling changes; more editing needed

<div style="padding-left:10px; padding-bottom:10px; background-color:#ffffff; float:right;">
{| border=1 cellspacing=2 width=250px cellpadding=2 style="border-collapse:collapse; background:#efefef;"
| + align="center" | '''Hatsticks'''
|-
| width="250px" align="center" style="background:#f0f000;" | [[Image:Hatstickslogo.png]]
|-
|
{| border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%" style="margin: 0em; border-style=none; border-width=0px; background:#efefef;"
| Inventor: || [[User:vivastpauli|vivastpauli]]
|-
| Webdesigner: || [[User:allsports|allsports]]
|}
|}
</div>

[[Image:Hstix team.png|thumb|right|The hatsticks team]]

'''Hatsticks''' (also called '''The Hatsticks Project''') is the official term for a HT-community-based project which revolves around collecting and exchanging stickers of HT-players in online albums. The concept was created by [[User:vivastpauli|vivastpauli]] who could finally complete his idea with the start of the new HT-design in December 2008. He built a Panini-style presentation of his own team for which he received a lot of positive feedback. With the feeling of a promising idea the [[Hatsticks Federation]] was founded on the 6th February 2009. Soon after the opening he teamed up with [[User:allsports|allsports]] who took care of the [http://www.hatsticks.de.vu/ online platform] which made the interaction between sticker collectors from all over the world possible. The pilot project "GREECE 2009" caused a huge hype with a viral effect in the entire HT-community and made Hatsticks famous overnight.

==The code system==

During the time period of a running project a certain amount of codes is released every day within the Press Announcements of vivastpauli or allsports, usually between 0:00 and 0:30 [[Hattrick Time]]. To enlarge the hype even more, easter eggs were included, in the form of codes that people had. After using the codes on the website you receive a certain amount of stickers per code. It's random which stickers are allocated to the sticker packs. Therefore all stickers have the same, objective value.

* '''Daily codes:''' The daily codes are regular codes which are accessible for everyone. Normally they have 6-digit structure with 4 letters and 2 numbers.
* '''Federation codes:''' Additionally to the daily codes a federation code is published as a bonus for members of the federation.
* '''Easter Egg codes:''' The world of Hatsticks also bears some Easter Eggs, so there are given hints sometimes to unlock them. They contain about half the amount of regular codes.
==The trade system==
After some time of filling your album you reach the point where you get doubles of already received stickers. There's a special section on the website where you can offer them for stickers you don't have yet. Try to find trade partners the HT-forums, there are exchange topics in:

* '''Global forums:''' The 4 main forums for English, French, Spanish and German speaking users usually have large attendance.
* '''National forums:''' There are special exchange threads in many national forums for first language speakers without knowledge of the above ones.
* '''Federation forum:''' The federation forum contains a lot of trade activity since it's focused on Hatsticks.
==Full album==
At the end of each project the collectors with a full album are able to download a file with a printable version of all album pages.
==Projects==
'''hattrick world cup GREECE 2009'''

The First Hatsticks project consisted of the [[National teams]] playing the [[World Cup XIII]] located in Greece. Players, coaches, NT-coaches, team flags and more from all 32 teams playing in round II were included, so there were no less than 742 stickers to collect.

Because of the enormous success the first server crashed after only 3 days. However the Hatsticks team found a new server and launched it back on one week later.

GREECE 2009 became a hype. Nearly 1000 people joined the federation in this time, trade topics were everywhere. No less than 21 trade topics were filled on [[Global|Global (English)]] and many more on the different national forums around the world. The Hatsticks team got thousands of visitors on their team pages everyday looking for the daily codes. To enlarge the hype even more, Easter Eggs were introduced in the form of secret codes that people had to search for based on some hints. Each of them included 5 additional stickers. The users who found them the first received the title of "Sir Stixalot of Codeshire and Bashory" in the federation.

These are the Sirs Stixalot of Codeshire and Bashory: [[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] (eggs 1, 2 and 10), [[GM-Baka]] (egg 2), [[User:TopGodo|TopGodo]] (egg 3), [[User:trashboy|trashboy]] (egg 4), [[User:Aethon|Aethon]] (egg 5), [[User:W-dic|W-dic]] (egg 6), [[User:LeSchmuh|LeSchmuh]] (egg 7), [[User:Pirats|Pirats]] (egg 8) and [[Mod-TaelS]] (egg 9).

== See also ==
* [http://www.hatsticks.de.vu/ The Hatsticks website]
* [http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9453/coverx.png GREECE 2009 Cover]
* [http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7717/stickerfront.png Stickers]

[[Category:Community|Hatsticks]]

User:Catalyst2950

2009-07-22T10:55:17Z

Catalyst2950:

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

In July 2009, Some Finnish Metal-Elf-Dude named jhattara accidentally banned a spammer from editing The Croatian One's wiki page and filling it with content more useful than this one, instead of the other way round. Subsequently, Some Finnish Metal-Elf-Dude had been banned from banning people, as his judgement was not to be trusted anymore.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users|Catalyst2950]]

User:Catalyst2950

2009-07-21T18:40:21Z

Catalyst2950: revert - link spam again :(

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users|Catalyst2950]]

User:Catalyst2950

2009-05-29T08:07:24Z

Catalyst2950: revert - horrible linkspam yet again

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users|Catalyst2950]]

User:Catalyst2950

2009-05-24T09:18:49Z

Catalyst2950: revert - link spam or something

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users|Catalyst2950]]

User:EchoMan/Talk2008

2008-11-17T19:20:57Z

Catalyst2950:

Talk, talk, talk! Do you have anything on your mind ment for my ears, please add it to this page.

== Re: ==

Thanks for the italian links, i realized it soon, and updated them all :)
 Sorry if this isn't the right place to write a message, i'm still not used with the wiki
By the way, do you know how to add the a link to the italian version, in the "Interwiki" link?
 [[User:Go_wiles|Go Wiles]]

== Re: ==

Thx for kudos, to you too for your job at clubhouse + welcome here. Well, as you can see there is still a lot of articles that need to be updated or at least controlled if they're still accurate, especially the ones in the [[:Category:Game Concepts]]. I'm looking myself at everything related to the countries. MOMOO does a lot on World Cups, I think he can need a helping hand. And anyway, it's a wiki, you'll always find room for improvments. Oh, and one last thing: you can move the article for your team in the main name space (i.e. to Boddingtons FC). Regards. --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 19:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
P.S.: There's a template for my HT messages, I'll fix that in the Clubhouse article as soon as I've got some sleep, unless someone else does it.
:Yes, always place team articles in the main name space. I hope that all our guidelines tell that, if not then I need to fix 'em. Signature: you mean like this: --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 15:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC) ? if yes, use: <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. The HT rules will be completely updated soon, so don't bother with changing the minor edits made recently (if there were, I don't recall if that's been the case). One thing that would also need more input and that is largely susceptible to be expanded is [[HTs on Global]]. Unfortunately I'm not really following Global English, so I can't provide many quotes from the HTs or flameron. --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 15:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Re:Team#Teams by Region / Category:Clubs_by_country ==
huh? We have no more categories to sort teams by regions. All teams have their category like this: <nowiki>[[Category:Swedish Clubs]]</nowiki>. All country team categories are then sorted in <nowiki>[[Category:Clubs_by_country]]</nowiki>. Finally this is then the top of the category tree: [[:Category:Clubs]]. Or am I simply not understanding your point? --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 15:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, I see, but I don't think that's a problem. The first one is in an article and a static version where we can add comments or other remarks or develop it even more if needed or possible and the other one's a part of the category tree. I think redundancy is fine there for the moment. Also 'cause the first one's a good way to get people to think "oh, it's possible to create an article for my team!" as the category-thingy isn't that obvious enough. --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 14:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

== Elections ==

That's due to myself being too "lazy". I replace nearly everything manually or at least I have to start an insane number of "Replace text by" operations. So if ever a user with that name appears he'll have to use a redirect or to replace it himself with <nowiki>[[User:Alias|Alias]]</nowiki> --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 01:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Penalty shoot out ==
I was going to do the very same edit you did :P But then decided to also rework the page completely since there were some informations missing --[[User:Go wiles|Go wiles]] 15:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== Bans ==

These where old bans, there is no connection to the new vandalism, just coincidence... Don't worry, I will handle/correct it :) --[[User:Omerzigdon|Omerzigdon]] 15:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== Giacomo Casanova ==

Well, maybe the sentence has wrong sense, I mean this team changed its name (check history club in Hattrick), when the team was called Bil o crew never win anything. I'm still working in this stub, so any doubts are welcome.

Thanks for reading my contributions!
--[[User:Lleida|Lleida]] 17:42, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Search ==

Big thanks for the notice. I'm putting a help page together and profited from the occasion to start some new help category. If you have further help topics in mind, just start creating the articles. I might even come with a template like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:HelpTOC] to put them together and make them more easily available. --[[User:Mod-Karlthegreat|Mod-Karlthegreat]] 16:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Uh oh ==

Leonaridus won't be too happy about you messing up his wiki page :( I'll have to let him know what's going on. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 19:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The Croatian One

2008-11-16T12:12:38Z

Catalyst2950: Removed double redirect

#REDIRECT [[User:Catalyst2950]]

Catalyst2950

2008-11-16T12:11:13Z

Catalyst2950: Removed double redirect

#REDIRECT [[User:Catalyst2950]]

Leonaridus da kit designer

2008-11-16T11:53:07Z

Catalyst2950: Redirecting to the proper place - now actually done properly

#REDIRECT [[HT-Oxidus]]

Leonaridus da kit designer

2008-11-16T11:52:34Z

Catalyst2950: Redirecting to the right place

#REDIRECT [[User:HT-Oxidus]]

HT-Oxidus

2008-11-16T11:51:51Z

Catalyst2950: Replaced generic boring stub with proper text

Commonly known as Leonaridus da Kit Designer, this shady character renowned for his rude retorts to friendly guestbook messages, claimed his place in Hattrick history by designing the Arena Viewer. This Arena Viewer was met with general bemusement, sporadic applause, and an overwhelming concensus that it was a damn sight better than the old one.

Rumour has it that the secretive Maestro is undergoing work on a Hattrick custom kit designer. Or to be precise, it has already been finished. Still, it's not in Hattrick yet, so watch this space...

When not engaging his artistic streak, Leonaridus da kit designer spends his time attempting to moderate the [[5th Slot Fed]] and reminiscing the days when he had hair.

== Quotes by Leonaridus da Kit Designer ==

''"The wiki page is actually quite well put together. There's some interesting stuff on there now"''

''"Writing to me in other languages(eg Polish, Hebrew, Spanish etc.)is pointless"''

''"It wasn't me .. It was Pinky"''

''"I'd like to be a russian lady with big baps"''

'' "If anyone from here spams that, then it's goodnight Vienna."''

[[Category:Hattrick Team members]]
[[Category:German Users]]

User:Catalyst2950

2008-11-16T11:48:00Z

Catalyst2950: Removed redirect to wrong place

'''The Croatian One''', also known as '''Catalyst2950''', is a Croatian-born web monkey of profound genius, who is widely regarded as the most Croatian member of [[5th Slot Fed]]. He developed the theory of Hattrick Blue, inspiring the Firefox plugin [[Foxtrick]]. And, not to forget, he is also one of the select few supporters of [[The Trains]].

After his Hattrick Blue CSS was developed in late 2004, The Croatian One became world famous, an unusual achievement for a Croat. In his later years, his fame exceeded that of any other Croat in history (except Igor Stimac). In popular culture, his name has become synonymous with great intelligence and even genius, but sometimes sillyness. He even proclaims this himself, but he always does it in a very humble way.

He is deeply concerned with the social impact of web usability. His belief in CSS, usability, and non-greenness of the Hattrick page (the primary source of inspiration in his life), his awe for the scheme that is manifested on the internet show through in his work and philosophy.

== Background ==

He is also famed for his love of all things Microsoft except IE and his extensive egg collection which now totals 3 eggs and a polished stone that looks like an egg. Kind of. If you squint when you look at it.

In his spare time, The Croatian One spends his effort chasing girls with pink hair. A hobby that has thus led to his nickname among the community of "Little Pinky". But he also has private moments in his newly reconstructed Zagreb bunker enjoying German DVDs about boy-girl-relationships.

Further ideas include that little box that asks you if you ''really'' want to bid £2,000,000 for that solid defender.

Many people expect The Croatian One to succeed Slobodan Boban on the Croatian throne.

== Early life==

There are various versions of The Croatian One's origins and life before 2000. (See Last Millennium) The account that has traditionally been supported by most historians is as follows:

Little Pinky was born between January 1 and December 31 in the year 1980, in the Croatian country of Croatia. He lived with his mum, who made him ham sandwiches for lunch every day. With tomatoes and mayonnaise.

1987, the year Pinky learned to talk. Some say that 7 is a bit old to start chattering, but it has been one of his lifelong ambitions to make up for lost time. By the year 2005, he had more than made up for his lack of words in his younger days. The word count was far beyond anything the average man could comprehend.

By 1990 he had learned to walk. From the computer to his bed. And back again.

In 1997, The Croatian One was on holiday in Poreč. Poreč had become a center for CSS (Croatian Style Sheets). This was a great source of inspiration to the young Croatian One. Years later he was often overheard reminiscing on the head tags he experienced there for the first time. Suffice to say, the table years were over.

In 1998, he turned 18 and fell in love for the first time. With a girl called Brian. Who had a green beard. This was a relationship that unfortunately didn't last, as Brian confessed 3 months later that he is in fact a man. But thanks for the ham sandwiches.
This was obviously a shock for someone of such a tender age and it took him years to recover.

2004 saw him sign up for Hattrick, despite being allergic to green. Something that stemmed back to his relationship with Brian.
He got his team three days after submitting the application.

In 2006 he claimed to be hit by GM's, resulting in spamming HT-Tjecken. He also was the first to mention the so called "infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident" on the global forum, which can be read in 7294481.28. Since this date, no one has ever heard from him again!

== Hattrick Blue ==

The year 2004, on the evening of August 3, The Croatian One emerged from his bedroom clutching only a piece of paper and a worn pencil, shouting "I have the plague". The origins of Hattrick Blue had been hastily scribbled on this now famous sheet. Down to the last blue pixel, the plan was ready. Upon entering the forums to tell people of his ground breaking discovery, he was met with indifference and contempt.

Not swayed by these flat earth believers, he set about realising his dream. A Rhapsody in Blue. Hattrick would never be the same again.

Work began earnestly on the new project. The doubts of the community were firmly put out of his mind, as he began the arduous task of dissecting the Hattrick page to consume its heart. The autopsy proved harder than expected as The Croatian One encountered non conforming HTML and a mess of internal formats. But his bloodlust had to be satisfied. The task, at times, consumed his soul, waking in a cold sweat, he would scribble ideas on a pad by the blue bean bag he took to sleeping on. These ideas formed the advanced theory of Hattrick Blue, and how all things are relative to a 12pt font. Surprisingly, at the time, fonts were smaller and not as well-formed as are the fonts we know today.

== Croatian Quotes ==

''"I still need a quotes section, though..."''

'' "It's a start."''

''"I like goth chicks with pink hair and tattoos."''

''"It was just a friendly [[toby14483 | Toby]] you English ponce"''

''"I'm not racist, I'm Englishist."''

''"I love moon110, he was my favourite hattrick player, and I miss him like I miss... well... nothing compares to him that i miss..."

''"You got two counter-attacks with inadequate CA skill. People with titanic CA are lucky to get two CA events. You scored both, even though I had better defence than your attacks."''

''"Yes, he hit me :("'' (about GM-Gunslinger)

''"... because of the infamous roast chicken and blueberry pie incident. At least have the decency to tell the whole story."''

[[category:Croatian Users]]

User:The Croatian One

2008-11-16T11:47:50Z

Catalyst2950: Redirecting to proper place

#REDIRECT [[User:Catalyst2950]]

Offensive wing back

2006-04-22T09:28:17Z

Catalyst2950: Expanded, explained

An Offensive Wingback (common acronym: OWB) adds a portion of his [[defending|defending skill]] to the team's [[defense ratings|defence ratings]], which is reduced from his normal capacity as a [[defender]], while contributing a part of his [[winger|winger skill]] to the team's wing attack ratings.

==How much Wing/Defending skill ?==
Compared to the [[Normal Wingback]], an Offensive Wingback will trade even more of his defending skill for more winger skill.

Unlike a [[Defensive Wingback]], which uses almost no winger skill, the OWB ''does'' use a small amount of his defending to help the team. The majority of his contribution, however, is to the wing attack rating. For that reason, most people consider the Offensive Wingback position to be a perfect place for a pure winger, disregarding the defending skill and defensive contribution completely.

==When to use an OWB?==
* When you are sure to win [[midfield]]
* When you are sure to win [[defence]]
* When you need a boost to your wing attack

As with most other [[Formations#Individual orders|individual player orders]] in Hattrick, the position of an Offensive Wingback carries a trade-off. When used wisely, it might help you secure an important win; when used foolishly, it might cause a loss unrivaled by any other player order, given that a wingback's defending helps two defence sectors (side and central).

== Federations ==
* [[Wing - Market & Discussion]] (1100+ members)

[[Category:Player positions]]

Normal wing back

2006-04-22T09:02:30Z

Catalyst2950: added numbered list markup

A "normal" wingback gives you the maximum skill contribution by the player with-out any penalty to the overall performance of the player, just like other "normal" postitions in your starting 11.

==How much Wing skill ?==

The Wing skill on a Normal Wingback should be valued with the following two considerations relating to the impact of the player's wing and defense skills.

# How high is the Wingback's [[Defense]] rating? The higher the defense skill on the wingback, the higher the ''sacrifice to the defense rating'' by playing the wingback "normal" and the greater the logic to play the Wingback "defensive". A Wingback with "world class" defending and "inadequate" Wing skill would make for a very poor trade in playing that player as a "normal" Wingback.
# How high is the Wingback's [[Wing]] skill? The reason for playing your wingback "normal" or "offensive" is to make an ''impact on the wing attack rating''. Wingbacks are the 5th highest contributor to wing attack, so the wing skill on a wingback should be substantial enough to make an impact.

The Wing skill of a "normal" Wingback should be high enough to justify the defensive sacrifice by making an impact on the wing attack rating. There are no fixed amounts of wing, but the wing skill level should come close to the defense skill level of the player to ensure a fair trade of skill. The more wing skill, the greater the impact on the attack.

==Recent Developments==

The Wing contribution of Wingbacks has been enhanced twice over the last two seasons. The contribution to central defence of Wingbacks played "defensive" has been reduced as well. As the market is new, there are not many wingbacks suitable for being played as normal wingbacks right now in Hattrick.

== Federations ==
* [[Wing - Market & Discussion]] (1100+ members)

[[category:Player positions]]

Normal wing back

2006-04-22T08:58:21Z

Catalyst2950: category added

A "normal" wingback gives you the maximum skill contribution by the player with-out any penalty to the overall performance of the player, just like other "normal" postitions in your starting 11.

==How much Wing skill ?==

The Wing skill on a Normal Wingback should be valued with the following two considerations relating to the impact of the player's wing and defense skills.

1. How high is the Wingback's [[Defense]] rating? The higher the defense skill on the wingback, the higher the ''sacrifice to the defense rating'' by playing the wingback "normal" and the greater the logic to play the Wingback "defensive". A Wingback with "world class" defending and "inadequate" Wing skill would make for a very poor trade in playing that player as a "normal" Wingback.

2. How high is the Wingback's [[Wing]] skill? The reason for playing your wingback "normal" or "offensive" is to make an ''impact on the wing attack rating''. Wingbacks are the 5th highest contributor to wing attack, so the wing skill on a wingback should be substantial enough to make an impact.

The Wing skill of a "normal" Wingback should be high enough to justify the defensive sacrifice by making an impact on the wing attack rating. There are no fixed amounts of wing, but the wing skill level should come close to the defense skill level of the player to ensure a fair trade of skill. The more wing skill, the greater the impact on the attack.

==Recent Developments==

The Wing contribution of Wingbacks has been enhanced twice over the last two seasons. The contribution to central defence of Wingbacks played "defensive" has been reduced as well. As the market is new, there are not many wingbacks suitable for being played as normal wingbacks right now in Hattrick.

== Federations ==
* [[Wing - Market & Discussion]] (1100+ members)

[[category:Player positions]]

Talk:Main Page

2006-03-19T19:51:22Z

Catalyst2950: Revert

== Main Page ==

We need some framework for the main page. Perhaps a Featured Article section, or even a featured club section, along with links to different subpages for the wiki. Also, some pictures would REALLY help some of these pages get on their feet. I'll do what I can, but from now on anyone making a new page should add an appropriate picture, if possible. For instance, if you are making a page for a certain nation, it should include their flag.

---[[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 00:36:42, 2005-11-28 (UTC)

----

[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 19:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC): People are forever messing with trailing dots after ''/The [[Hattrick Team]]''

As far as I'm concerned we forgo this dot.

----

Shall we scrap the Introduction? I mean, it takes up valuable space, and we'd be better off having featured articles, expanding the content, adding links to projects, popular pages, etc... That is, a framework mentioned at the top of the discussion by an unknown person. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 21:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

----

The unknown person would be me... it was originally part of a 2nd paragraph which got split up from the other comments by someone.
--[[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 00:36:42, 2005-11-28 (UTC)

----

I think we should also include the main categories (=Portals). ATM it looks only like a help page.
Problem: What are the main categories and how should we call them?
we have:
* Countries, Regions, Zones, Continents in "Geography"
* Players
* Clubs
* Users
* Federations
* Gameplay
i would also add:
* national teams (inclusive World Cups category)
* (HT site navigation)

a wikipedia example is the Portal [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Science Science] 
here are templates for the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/Main_page_and_alternatives main pages]

--[[User:Shyrlden|Shyrlden]] 18:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

----
ok, i have created the navbar template. Perhaps we should merge "Users" & "Federations" under a "Community" roof. (then we could also include the categories "HT-Radio stadions" & "External HT-Portals" there).--[[User:Shyrlden|Shyrlden]] 13:10, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

== Layout boxes ==
I have created some layout boxes in [[Meta:Sandbox]] yesterday. If nobody objects, tomorrow I'll copy the [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] category content here on the main page and make the whole thing more accessible. Hopefully Htsysop will then clean up the sidebar because it's almost, but not entirely, unlike being usable. We should also really write some [[Editing Guidelines]] to be visibly linked as well, since there's still a whole lot of "I think", "I have", "You should" and ":)" in the articles... --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 17:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I have added some content boxes to duplicate the left menu. Tested in Opera, FF and IE. Should play very nicely with other browsers, too. Obeys the users' font sizes. Has two boxes per row in 1024x768. Feel free to improve, suggest, or even revert! :) --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 13:49, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

----

Nice! (I see you implemented them)--[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 13:50, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

----

You did well! --[[User:Ukelele|ukelele]] 13:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
----

==== Width of the layout boxes ====

Introduction and content (the layout boxes) each gets the 50% of the space (1024x768). I think it will be better with only one columns for the ''content'' and a small width for them and, may be, only show the Hattrick and Miscellaneous boxes.
--[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 21:42, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

----

This is (was, actually), a copy of the [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] article to ease up navigation, because the menu on the left is cluttered, and [[User:Htsysop]] should change it. If we remove the Introduction, which I think we should, then we can discuss on how to format those boxes better and what to include in them. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 22:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

== HattrickWikiProjects and guidelines ==

We should create some kind of a [[Rules of Conduct]] and [[Editing Guidelines]] articles and link them directly in the [[Main Page]] article, preferably marked with a distinct background color. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 06:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

----

The problem with written rules is that people who read them usually had no intention in breaking them in the first place, and vice versa.
--[[User:Jablan|jablan]]

----

I also think that we should set some guidelines and make an effort on how to coordinate the writing efforts. A good way to deal with this would be the creation of [[Hattrick:HattrickWikiProjects]] - so we can divide and organize the work better. A Project can be created with the goals of deciding and enforcing some Rules of Conduct, Guidelines, etc. All those specific issues would be discussed on the Project pages, instead of using the Hattrick forums or looking for information in a lot of places.

To demonstrate the use, I have created the [[Hattrick:HattrickWikiProjects]] main page, along with a sample project: [[Hattrick:HattrickWikiProject_Templates]]. If you think this idea could be useful, please go ahead and improve it :) --[[User:Duno7|duno7]] 19:50, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
----
I've created a guideline for [[Hattrick:Naming_conventions|name conventions]], most of it based on Wikipedia.org. What do you think about it? --[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 13:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
----
Nice document, I think we could take that as an initial reference. Why not creating a project that deal with the Guidelines setting? It looks like a big task, and it could have sub-projects and such. In my opinion, we should first discuss some issues, and then release some documents: a couple of "compressed guides for readers/writers/etc", and a set of articles that explain each issue or guideline in detail. And I guess the sooner the better! (this is growing fast!) --[[User:Duno7|duno7]] 18:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
----
Is there any chance that the < math > functions can be activated? Currently they are throwing an error. I'd like to incorporate more forumlas on some of the pages.
--[[User:Psymon|psymon]] 21:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

----

I've tried to make the page look a little cleaner, and quite like the division into four sections. The 'Miscellaneous' box has been moved to [[Start Here!]].

The actual format looks pretty bad though. Can anyone make it prettier? [[User:Dancing rob|Dancing rob]] 22:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

----

As far as I'm concerned, the Introduction has to go away. Then we create only TWO boxes - one for the featured article (we need that!), one for things that are currently in other boxes. Maybe add some quick categories on top of the page. What I did a couple of days ago was to copy the Sidebar so hopefully Htsysop would clean it up - it hasn't happened, though. I suggest a complete restructuring of this page tomorrow. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 22:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
----
The addition of links to useful categories is a really nice idea - I suggest we have at least links to the user clubs and probably countries / regions / something like that. Regarding the countries issue, are the non-category pages really necessary? Please check [[:Category:Geography]], the articles listed there are not really very useful, should we redirect them to the Category articles instead? --[[User:Duno7|duno7]] 13:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

----

Any news on sorting the sidebar problem yet? [[User:Dancing rob|Dancing rob]] 22:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

----

Nope :( --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 22:30, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

----

''I suggest we have at least links to the user clubs and probably countries / regions / something like that.''
<- Maybe inside a new table in the contents called "The Community" ?
It could also include a link to "Articles".

== Wiki logon contest ==

I want to add this at the top of the front page:

<div style="border-width: 4px; border-color:red; border-style: groove; background-color: #efdfdf;
margin-left:12em; margin-right:12em; text-align: center">
==Hattrick wiki logo content==
* Do you want a new logo for our wiki?
* Do you want to make the new HT-wiki logo?
* Do yo want to see them?
'''''Go to [[Hattrick wiki logo contest]] and participate!!!'''''
</div>

<pre><nowiki>
<div style="border-width: 4px; border-color:red; border-style: groove; background-color: #efdfdf;
margin-left:12em; margin-right:12em; text-align: center">
==Hattrick wiki logo content==
* Do you want a new logo for our wiki?
* Do you want to make the new HT-wiki logo?
* Do yo want to see them?
'''''Go to [[Hattrick wiki logo contest]] and participate!!!'''''
</div>
</nowiki></pre>

Opinions?

--[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 11:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

----

I changed it to conte'''s'''t

== Getting started (a guide for wiki beginners) ==

I created the [[Getting started]] page... perhaps it should be put on the main page somehow? Not sure how myself though. --[[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 02:20:57, 2005-12-08 (UTC)
----
I put a link on the [[Start here!]] page. --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 07:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

Is there a user who has the power block IPs and whatnot? Because I have a feeling the main page is going to get vandalized a lot. --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 16:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, we really need IP blocking! I think I have restored all pages now... --[[User:194.105.120.80|194.105.120.80]] 16:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

----
Yeah, I restored the guy who most recently vandalized the main page: Bearsden FC. Odd that his IP here and on Hattrick completely matched...
Someone had the power to block IP, it's just a matter of locating that person. One of the HT's probably.

--[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 16:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
----
HTSysop has the power to block IPs, and I'm pretty sure I've seen them ban someone before in the recent changes. I'm assuming eventually there will be Wiki admins (perhaps GMs) who will have banning power, but right now it's just HTSysop (maybe a slightly different name, I forget). --[[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 23:03:24, 2005-12-08 (UTC)

----
Yes, but how do you contact HTSysop? There's a page, but it appears to be unused. --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 03:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
----
Well, whenever you add a message to the person's talk page, not only will it appear when they login, but also it will send them an email. I'm assuming whoever Htsysop is (probably one of the HTs) will check his email and see that they have a message. So I'd say that's the best way to contact them, by adding a message to [[User Talk:Htsysop|this page]].
--[[User:71.33.83.184|71.33.83.184]] 00:33, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
* That was me. --[[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 00:34:37, 2005-12-23 (UTC)

== Turkish Main page ==

There are many Turkish "Hattrick" user. So I think wiki must have a Turkish Main Page. All Turkish user will be happy if you do it.

Good Days..

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2006-03-19T19:50:52Z

Catalyst2950: Revert

= Previous discusion in [[Help talk:Contents]] (moved) =
== hattrick wiki logo ==
I've kicked off a contest to get this great project a new logo. For this I've posted the call for suggestions in several confereces within Hattrick as well as external forums.
I'll keep posting the samples which people create here. I'll also post these in the [[Hattrick_Wiki_Federation|Hattrick Wiki conference]]. I've created a thread for this there.

'''Moved the gallery to [[Hattrick_wiki_logo_contest]] upon request''' --[[User:Psymon|psymon]] 23:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Writings will be changed by the artists if the logo gets selected as the new Hattrick Wiki Logo. I can understand they don't want the logos to be selected without their knowledge ;)
By the way - something's not working with the < gallery > template... but as long as we see the pictures, I think it's okay ;)

Shall I make this logo project an extra page?

----

Yes, I think so. Can I suggest something like [[Hattick:Hattrick wiki logo contest]] and add a link from the wiki main page?

BTW, The logos should need some acceptable license. I think that BSD, GFDL or GPL would be fine but it's unclarified (see the text at the end of the edition page).

--[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 23:03, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Good point. I'll extract this now - I think you're right. HT-Johan said in the global conference he likes the idea - so it's a good idea that we make this more visible ;)
----
I also think a new page for the logo contest is needed, plus a link from the main page. The main page should be a dinamic and updated article, that reflects events such as this one in my opinion. Also, I can only see one of the logos, and the layout on that table looks screwed to me (on linux & firefox). Great idea! --[[User:Duno7|duno7]] 23:15, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
: Also linux and firefox, I can see the three images but there is a text at the bottom overlaping. Could you try: <nowiki>[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_sirhawkeye.jpg|thumb|140px|Artist: SirHawkeye]] [[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_brausebirne.gif|thumb|140px|Artist: Brausebirne]] [[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_joager.gif|thumb|140px|Artist: Joager]]</nowiki> --[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 23:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok. The contest page is created and can be found here:
[[Hattrick_wiki_logo_contest]]

And yes, the layout looks screwed, because the template is. I am using the gallery feature. I'll look into fixing that later.
--[[User:Psymon|psymon]] 23:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

----
Can we clean up this discussion or just move it entirely to the new page? So that the other discussions here don't get burried? --[[User:Septimusjm|Septimusjm]] 23:50, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
: Done --[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 14:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

= About:Hattrick wiki logon contest page =
== Layout ==

May be the better solution for the layout problem is use tables:
{| border="1" align="center"
|-
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_sirhawkeye.jpg|thumb|center|120px|Artist: SirHawkeye]]
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_brausebirne.gif|thumb|center|120px|Artist: Brausebirne]]
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_joager.gif|thumb|center|120px|Artist: Joager]]
||[[Image:Hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_MOD-RoLitoral.jpg|120px|thumb|center|Artist: MOD-RoLitoral]]
|-
|}

<pre><nowiki>
{| border="1" align="center"
|-
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_sirhawkeye.jpg|thumb|center|120px|Artist: SirHawkeye]]
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_brausebirne.gif|thumb|center|120px|Artist: Brausebirne]]
||[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_joager.gif|thumb|center|120px|Artist: Joager]]
||[[Image:Hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_MOD-RoLitoral.jpg|120px|thumb|center|Artist: MOD-RoLitoral]]
|-
|}
</nowiki></pre>

May be somebody can tweak better the layout.

''''Great idea!!!!''''

--[[User:Carlesmu|carlesmu]] 23:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Some tweaking requested? Some tweaking done! Centered the images... --[[User:Wyatt|Wyatt]] 23:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

----
Tried that - it looks funny with the table border around it when there are more pictures and valign=middle creates a zic-zac layout.
--[[User:Psymon|psymon]] 00:24, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

= Comments about logos =

== Logos ==

I love the first logo, but it needs better text at the bottom. I don't like the hattwiki thing.
The 2nd logo is a little too hard to read for my taste, and it doesn't make mention of the wiki.
I like the third logo, but I'm not sure something so square is what we want.
The fourth is just funny. I think I like it best though.

----
The last one might be a very good logo, but I don't know if its appropriate to use such a harsh language. --[[User:Superow|Superow]]

----

I don't think there's a place for those words here. I've deleted the reference to the RTFW image, and I'm surprised nobody has done that before. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 11:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

----

I don't think there's a place for censure here. I've backup the image, and I'm surprise that anybody will delete it in the future --[[User:Attreides|Attreides]] 14:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

----

I have reverted the page again, and I've added it to my watchlist. I'm going to revert back every change that includes your image. No hard feelings, but this is an OFFICIAL Hattrick site, and rules apply. It's not allowed to use offensive words on Hattrick, nor should it be allowed to do so here, unless you get permission for that from a GM, in which case I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Keep in mind that there are members of the staff monitoring the Wiki, and that some people have already been banned from the Wiki because of what they did. Personally, I don't mind your picture and I find it very funny, but we should all try to be objective and act according to some general rules of behaviour. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 23:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

----

Hoopa, all your words seems to be correct but note that YOU are not the staff of the hattrick. They have the chance sooner as you are here to say me: hey you do the wrong thing please be moderated! But they don't do it yet. So it is not the PLACE to threaten anybody with a ban. You have not the authority to do this, my image is an official member of the challange. So get out of it! :)
--[[User:Attreides|Attreides]] 16:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----
Thing is, the logo's not even very good. Or, IMO, funny. Also, I'm not sure anyone's been banned from the site yet, though it is technically possible to ban IPs. This logo, however, probably wouldn't justify a ban or any action at all on part of the HT staff.

STILL--the idea that wikis are unmoderated is a misnomer. Wikis (and in particular this one) are ''community'' moderated. What that means is that if the consensus is against whatever you wanted to post, then you should bow out. At some point, simply being overly obstinate would justify an IP ban.

But there's clearly no consensus here yet. Hell, not even much discussion. For me and my part, I say the logo should go--mainly because it's trite, uninteresting and juvenile. Also, most of the other logos are CLEARLY better, so this one vanishing would be no loss at all. -- Septimusjm

----

Your words are correct, i never say that my logo can keep step with the others, and that wasn't a goal for it :) - Attreides
----
Then why DID you post it? --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 19:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----
because i think it is FUNNY --[[User:Attreides|Attreides]] 21:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----

Reverted back again. If a GM gives his approval, the logo can go back... --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 20:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----

RErevering is done. If a GM gives his approval, the logo can go away :) Attreides

----

I've performed another revert and asked [[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] to visit us here and give his opinion. Until then, please, don't add your logo back. I'll do it myself if the GM allows the logo and I'll apologize, but until then, I consider the logo to be offensive content from without a place in the Hattrick Wiki. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 20:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----

I will add again my logo and i will who get it back if any GM say me to do it!
Wiki is a free thing, it's not a place for any censure, you waste your time :)
--[[User:Attreides|Attreides]] 21:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

----

As Septimusjm said, Wikis are community-moderated. You can revert, I can revert. I can censor, you can un-censor. However, it would be best if you just let this go until we get official clarification on whether offensive words are allowed on an official Hattrick site or not. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 20:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
----
I agree that the logo should go (because I think it's dumb and not funny), but I don't think GMs have any more say around here than anyone else. EXCEPT for things like harrassing HT members, which is against the rules whether it happens onsite or off.

Maybe 2 v. 1 is sufficient concensus to keep the ugly logo off the site? --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 04:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

: I agree GMs don't have more to say here except for things regarding harrassing, cheating, and the like. Also it is slightly more easy for me to get the attention of those actually running the wiki, who in turn have the power to ban people from the wiki.
:However, as there seems to be a 3 to 1 or even 4 to 1 (me included) that the logo is not really suitable for the contest, I would like to keep the rtfw-logo off the page. Feel free to create [[Hattrick-Wiki_logo_controversy]] though;-) --[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 09:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
:p.s. I can practically guarantee that the HTs will never allow logo's with abusive language as an official logo, so the logo is ''really'' not suitable. [[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]]

I don't like Attreides' logo and the language used in it and I'm sure that it will never be used as the HT Wiki logo. However, as long as this contest is running I think that it is up to Attreides to decide whether he still want to participate with his logo and no one else should take it off. (We're talking about freedom of expression here, not plain use of bad language...)
But if Attreides has any common sense he should come up with another logo. --[[User:Wyatt|Wyatt]] 10:13, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

----
We're actually NOT talking about freedom of expression. Not for individuals anyway. Hattrick wiki is a community undertaking which in an important way is less about individual expression than self-less expression and compromise.

make that 5 to 1 against Attreides if that's any help. [[User:Dancing rob|Dancing rob]] 16:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Maybe I didn't express myself clear enough. I agree that Wiki isn't the place where everyone must be allowed to contribute whatever (s)he wants for the sake of "freedom of expression".
But with respect to the logo contest I think that anyone should be allowed participate with any logo (even if it is a bad one). It's not up to us to ban logo's from the contest, we should just point out to the participant that the logo is not appropriate, has no chance to win the contest and ask him to come up with another one. --[[User:Wyatt|Wyatt]] 12:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

= Choosing a logo =

It's been over a month since this page was created. Don't you guys think it's time to actually choose a logo? ;) --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 15:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

----

was thinking the same thing!

I vote for Mod-Litorral's logo.

Rob

----

I like it as well. Rutger1992's logo is also very neat, but I fear it's going to be lost in the background image if it becomes transparent (which, IMHO, it should be). --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 18:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

------
i like the Joager´s Logo!!! Please choose a logo!!! --[[User:FNery|FNery]]

----
My god, get it over with already! --[[User:Septimusjm|septimusjm]] 18:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

== hi I have just seen that contest ==

Hi, I made a logo but I can't understand where i am supposed to submit it...

as a matter of fact Joager's logo is really good :)

Hattrick Team

2006-01-21T12:00:55Z

Catalyst2950: Revert due to vandalism

The Hattrick Team consists of the people who develop and operate [[Hattrick]]. They can be recognised in the game through their login name prefix "HT".

* '''Developers:''' [[HT-Bjorn]], [[HT-Calle]], [[HT-Frid]], [[HT-Jonas]], [[HT-Magnus]], [[HT-Pelle]], [[HT-Sarah]]

* '''Community management:''' [[HT-Tjecken]]

* '''Hardware maintenance:''' [[HT-Daniel]]

* '''Operations and Business Development:''' [[HT-Johan]], [[HT-Mattias]]

* '''Other:''' [[HT-Hasse]], [[HT-Trapper]]

Main Page

2006-01-21T11:59:01Z

Catalyst2950: Revert due to triple vandalism

__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

<div style="border: 2px solid #ff0000; background-color: LavenderBlush;
margin-left:12em; margin-right:12em; text-align: center">
==Hattrick wiki logo contest==
* Do you want a new logo for our wiki?
* Do you want to make the new HT-wiki logo?
* Do you want to see them?
'''''Go to [[Hattrick wiki logo contest]] and participate!!!'''''
</div>

<div id="HTWiki-MainPageContainer">

<div id="HTWiki-MainPageIntroduction" style="float: left; width: 40%; padding-right: 3em;">
= Introduction =

Welcome to [[Hattrick Wiki]], the encyclopedia about all things concerning [[Hattrick]]. Here we give the users the opportunity to create the equivalent of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia Wikipedia] for the Hattrick world.

Feel free to add lexicon articles about your favourite subject in Hattrick. Currently it is only available in English, but in time, we expect to add more languages.

Hattrick Wiki is unmoderated. This places a great responsibility on you as a contributor. Please don't misuse Hattrick Wiki. Try to be as objective as possible when you write an article. Please don't sabotage. Do not publish information on cheating or [[GameMasters|GameMaster]] investigations. This is a test and if it doesn't work out well, we will take the wiki down again.

Please contribute all you can to make this a useful addition to the services we offer. We want this to take the dissection of the game to the next level, a place for your ideas to evolve together, a center for collecting and analysing data.

For more information on how to use the Hattrick Wiki, check out the [[Getting started]] page.

Note: It is useful to register (under your Hattrick username) before editing pages. That way other users can point out mistakes you may make when changing pages, or simply discuss those changes with you. Registering also helps to mask your IP address.

/The [[Hattrick Team]]
</div> 

<div id="HTWiki-MainPageContentContainer" style="float: left; width: 50%;">
= Content =
<div style="float: left; border: 1px solid #C8D8C8; color: black; background-color: #EAFFEF; padding: 0 1em 1em 1em; margin: 0.5em; width: 12em; height: 16em;">
=== The Game ===
* [[Hattrick]]
* [[Rules]]
* [[My Hattrick]]
* [[Hattrick Team|The Hattrick Team]]
* [[World Cup]]
* [[U-20 World Cup]]
* [[Bugs]]
* '''[[Start here!]]'''
</div>

<div style="float: left; border: 1px solid #F4D2C2; color: black; background-color: #FFF8DF; padding: 0 1em 1em 1em; margin: 0.5em; width: 12em; height: 16em;">
=== The Club ===
* [[Club]]
* [[Economy]]
* [[Staff]]
* [[Fans]]
* [[Sponsors]]
* [[Youth]]
* [[Arena]]
* [[Transfers]]
</div>

<div style="float: left; border: 1px solid #C6C9FF; color: black; background-color: #EEEEFF; padding: 0 1em 1em 1em; margin: 0.5em; width: 12em; height: 11em;">
=== The Team ===
* [[Team]]
* [[Players]]
* [[Skills]]
* [[Coach]]
* [[Training]]
</div>

<div style="float: left; border: 1px solid #ccc; color: black; background-color: #efefef; padding: 0 1em 1em 1em; margin: 0.5em; width: 12em; height: 11em;">
=== The Match ===
* [[Line-up]]
* [[Tactics]]
* [[Rating]]
* [[Match Report]]
</div>

<div style="clear: both" />
</div> 

<div style="clear: both" />
</div>

HTs on Global

2006-01-06T23:52:45Z

Catalyst2950:

[[Category:HT's on Global]]
'''Notice:''' This is a temporary data dump and is currently being categorized. The last message categorized is numbered "30". Help categorize the others if you wish, but make sure you watch whether other people are busy categorizing (this is probably so if new HT's_on_Global/[subject] messages appear on the [[Special:Recentchanges]] page). They might be just categorizing the very messages you are about to categorize...

The Category link at the bottom of the page leads to a list of current categories.

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Tjecken
| to = evenlamername
| msgid = 3348749.23
| prevmsgid = 3348749.11
| datetime = 15-06-2005, at 12:46
| keywords = (playmaking), (passing), (framspel)
| text =
Good question. :)

In my opinion playmaking is an accurate term for the skill playmaking. Playmaking imho is not about "the decisive pass", it's about keeping the ball in your team in order to get a chance to score.
Passing on the other hand is not as accurate imo, as passing the ball to each other also is a part of playmaking in a way. Passing in Hattrick is, as you know, about the ability to pass "a decisive pass", making it more like assisting maybe. It could be a kind of a lame translation from Swedish from the beginning, but I don't know if there are any fantastic translation for the swedish word "framspel" (which more or less means the ability to pass a decisive pass).

Anyways, this doesn't really matter nowadays - cause as we all know: passing is the correct term for a decisive pass and nothing else, right? ;)
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Tjecken
| to = Pirats
| msgid = 3348749.26
| prevmsgid = 3348749.22
| datetime = 15-06-2005, at 12:57
| keywords = (stamina), (playmaking)
| text =
You can put it this way: Stamina is important for every player, but extra important for those players who use their playmaking skill.
The more playmaking a certain player uses, stamina becomes more important.
}}

1 From: HT-Tjecken 
To: evenlamername 3348749.23, answering 3348749.11 
15-06-2005, at 12:46 
Good question. :) 
In my opinion playmaking is an accurate term for the skill playmaking. Playmaking imho is not about "the decisive pass", it's about keeping the ball in your team in order to get a chance to score.
Passing on the other hand is not as accurate imo, as passing the ball to each other also is a part of playmaking in a way. Passing in Hattrick is, as you know, about the ability to pass "a decisive pass", making it more like assisting maybe. It could be a kind of a lame translation from Swedish from the beginning, but I don't know if there are any fantastic translation for the swedish word "framspel" (which more or less means the ability to pass a decisive pass). 

Anyways, this doesn't really matter nowadays - cause as we all know: passing is the correct term for a decisive pass and nothing else, right? ;) 

2 From: HT-Tjecken 
To: Pirats 3348749.26, answering 3348749.22 
15-06-2005, at 12:57 
You can put it this way: Stamina is important for every player, but extra important for those players who use their playmaking skill. 
The more playmaking a certain player uses, stamina becomes more important. 

3 From: HT-Tjecken 
To: evenlamername 3348749.31, answering 3348749.24 
15-06-2005, at 13:12 
Try to see it this way: 
Playmaking is the ability to make use of your possession and turn it into an attack (a chance to score). In order to score on that chance you need a player who can pass a decisive pass (passing skill in Hattrick) to the scorer. Sometimes you might succeed even if you don't have a good passer, the ball might bounce your way and end up in front a fantastic scorer - but you'll be more succesful if you have both good passers and fantastic scorers. 

Making passing affect the attack rating makes sense, often in irl football teams have great chances to score but the final passes are so lousy that the chance disappears. You'll still count such chance as a good chance to score even if it wasn't even close to score. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

4 From: HT-Mattias 
To: DriesEvil 3237002.48, answering 3237002.37 
31-05-2005, at 01:40 
The games FIFA 2004 and Soccer Manager have both been banned in mainland China because they called Taiwan Taiwan. As were 50 other games in January. 

So yes, we were forced to change the name to Chinese Taipei, which is the official FIFA name for Taiwan. So call us spineless, but if a change of name is what it takes to keep our mainland Chinese users having access to Hattrick, then we have to do it. 

In fact, most local Taiwanese in the Chinese Taipei conference don't seem to have a big problem with it. The ones who have protested the most against the name change are Europeans who don't know very much about the historic roots of the issue. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

5 From: HT-Mattias 
To: GetAssista 3391068.32, answering 3391068.6 
22-06-2005, at 01:39 
He-he, nice! Must be indeed some time seed in YP RNG 
You are correct. The bug that creates the clones is that when two players make a youth pull within the same 3 milliseconds, the same random seed will be used. Therefore the players will be identical. This does not happen often, but with 600,000 active players it does happen sometimes. 

We will fix this bug shortly. 

6 From: HT-Mattias 
To: Grischenko 3391068.36, answering 3391068.35 
22-06-2005, at 01:58 
You are correct. We will construct the seed out of the time and the team number, so that all youth pulls get a unique seed. 

7 From: HT-Mattias 
To: ballord 3391068.52, answering 3391068.37 
22-06-2005, at 11:23 
Should that really prevent clones from being pulled? I think in some way that's impossible. Like, let's say you use time divided by team id to get the random seed. Well, in that case different times could, divided by proportional team ids, result in the same seed.
The trick is to construct a seed not by dividing time by teamID, but rater in this way: time*C+teamID, where C is a number that is larger than the largest teamID. This will always create a unique seed. 

8 From: HT-Mattias 
To: _Diegol_ 3391068.53, answering 3391068.46 
22-06-2005, at 11:25 
Maybe that seed will make some teams more propitious to pull better players than others.
No, the random function is random enough, so that won't be the case. 

9 From: HT-Mattias 
To: Ratsia 3391068.84, answering 3391068.71 
23-06-2005, at 02:44 
It is correct that the first number (and arguably another few numbers) after reseeding typically has a detectable link to the seed. 

To counter that, we call the random function a couple of times to "shuffle the deck" before we start using the numbers. 

Due to the parallel nature of Hattrick, where many youth pulls can happen simultaneously, the practical solution is to reseed every time. And to make sure that we have a unique seed. 

Regarding your fear that the random generator might only use the last few bits of the seed, let me assure you that we have made sure that in fact the whole seed is used. 

We have made a statistical analysis of the youth pulls, and the distribution is in fact very random and is shaped as we want it. 

Now, the change we have made (implemented tonight), only affects the selection of the seed. The way the player skills are calculated is unchanged. So the only difference will be the fact that there will be no more clones, since the same seed will not be used twice in the future. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

10 By: HT-Bjorn 
To: Mod-Rhoddry 2796895.19 as reply to 2796895.18 
24/3-2005 at 06.10 
Jag tror att det är tid som är reserverad så att matchmotorn skall kunna arbeta ikapp så att simuleringen av matcherna verkligen kan börja vid matchstart. 

Så kan man uttrycka det, ja. Det är en slags tidsbuffert för lite olika saker och så att vi inte skall ha folk som lägger order precis när matcherna skall dras igång, vilket skulle kunna strula till det en smula. <

Matchsimuleringen börjar prick. 

Boiled-down-translation: Calculations start at kick-off :o) The 15 mins before match start is like a "time buffer" for different kinds of stuff and so that ppl won't place orders at the same moment matches are about to start, which could mess things up a bit. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

11 From: dansyl 
To: Iedereen 1476700.40, answering 1476700.39 
16-07-2004, at 17:16 
Ht frid geeft aan dat er een bug is gefixed betreffende de weergave van de ts. ts level 9 en 10 werden beiden altijd weergegeven als POE maar level 9 is WOC (walking on clouds). Dit is nu gefixed. Kortom bij sommigen van jullie kan de ts omschrijving ineens veranderd zijn ;-) 

level 8 = delirious 
level 9 = WOC 
level 10 = POE 
level 11- = shouldn't bee shown but due to the same reason as level 9 has been shown in hrf but nowhere else, the hrf can show levels higher than 10 

previous situation: 

Real level 9 showed up as POE (level 10) on site and in XML but as leve 9 in HRF and level 10 in RF description
Real level 10 was handled correctly by all. 

Since people have been matching the correct HRF value with an incorrect description most people have thought POE=level9. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

12 From: HT-Hasse 
To: Chapo 1523089.24, answering 1523089.23 
20-07-2004, at 16:49 
Could you confirm that the scorer's choice is totally random? 

No, because as far as I know it isn't. It also depends on position on the pitch as I understand it. 

13 From: HT-Hasse 
To: dansyl 1523089.29, answering 1523089.28 
21-07-2004, at 12:14 
I assume weather events are incorporated before the actual game too. 

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14 From: HT-Hasse 
To: Payto 1523089.18, answering 1523089.17 
20-07-2004, at 15:03 
OK, I will clarify - the players performance of the day (do not get stars mixed into that) creates the values for the different team parts, which in their turn decide the outcome of the match. 

Each individual player though might use skills that contribute to more than one team part (for instance both attack left wing and defence left wing). 

The players receive an individual grade based upon all the skills they use, which as we have already seen may be parts of different team parts. 

This is the only measurement of individual effort there is, and thus it is used to pick MOM etc. This is also basically the only way it could be done since it is impossible to measure individual effort in any other way. 

This does not necessarily mean it was your most important player though. That might be your best defender, who you successfully placed on the flank where the other guy had his best winger. He did a good job closing the opponent's best flank, even though he might not have been the most talented player out there. 

Pretty much as in real life don't you think btw? 

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15 By: HT-Bjorn 
1636437.25 as reply to 1636437.20 
20/8-2004 at 15.57 
no answer on where HT stand other than the "formula" for calculating crowds to games has not changed. 

If that's the case, how could we answer differently? We can't should say A when it is B, just for the sake of populism, to appease those who say "It is not A, it is B". 

It has not changed. 

Also, these threads tend to mix a whole bunch of completely different things. 

I'll here just comment the complaining about losing supporters, which is what this thread was originally about, until it was hijacked by users who prefer spreading sarcasms about "intelligent fans" (taking things badly out of context while so doing) and complain about their spectator outcome in general 

Losing supporters: The complaints tend to be founded in a complete lack of understanding how the fanclub size relates to what league level you are in. Many people think that just because it worked fine to pile up fanclub members early in their HT career, then it will remain linear like that forever. However, as I've repeatedly tried to get the message through: the size of your fanclub is strongly related to what level you are in. 

There is a "balance size" for each division level. If you're doing OK, then you will reach this level and neither lose nor gain supporters a typical week. However, it is possible to be doing "above average" for a while (including using press spokesmen and similar means to boost fans mood). If you manage to maintain this "enhanced" situation for some time, your fanclub size will grow beyond the balance level. 

But when your team then screw things up (lose in the cup against a worse team, for instance, or lose 5-0 in an important series match), then so much worse the fall is: You fall from an enhanced state. 

Here's an example (hypothetical, and with dummy values NOT taken from the actual formula): Let's say a certain division has a balance level of 2000 fans. your team has 1900. For some time your team starts doing well and the fans stay happy. You will reach 2000 at an "accelerated speed" because you are currently below the balance level. However, the further beyond 2000 you go, the harder each new recruitment gets. And when finally, bad luck strikes and things start going wrong with the team, you will lose quite a lot, say lose 100 withing a few weeks, going from the exhanced level of 2200 to 2100. 

Does this mean that it is meaningless to gain fans? No. If you stay at 2200 for some time, you will still have had 10% more income (although for a limited time) from the things depending on fanclub than you would have had otherwise. Just because it doesn't last forever, you'll still have gained more money than if you had stayed at 2000 all the time. 

So, there are a few things to note: The 10% fanclub gain when you go up to higher division is not the big advantage of promoting. The big advantage is that you'll have a higher balance level. In fact, the 10% you gain may (or may not) bring you above the balance level of the new division. This is what some users have experienced as a drop of fanclub size early in the new season after promoting. 

Why do we have a balance level? For starters, this rewards promotion somewhat. It is also an element of realism (yeah-yeah... I know, we have limited the realism on the whole on the matter of spectator sizes, but let's not take up that discussion here, I've answered that elsewhere). 

Furthermore, it prevents the early starters from benefiting eternally from "a head start". I mean like this: If supporter gain had been linear, so you keep gaining fans as long as you win, then we could easily have had a situation where the oldest teams had fanclubs of 20.000 rather than 2000 members. So there has to be a limitation, although, we ALWAYS shun strict limits, we've made the limit "soft" (so you can cross it, but only temporary). 

The fans want you to take all important matches seriously. The cup is very important to them. Like it or not, but that is the way the spectators of the HT universe thinks about things. Them fans are stubborn crazy little fools, but hey - that's why they fork out the fee to the entrance tickets each week (except when they are too angry with you failing them). When it comes to stubbornness of your fans, you have to take the bad with the good. 

Over and out, 

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16 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: Iedereen (1767768.21), answering 1767768.1 
24-09-2004, at 10:05 
It is very simple. I have no idea where the notion that it would depend on what team is home and what is away comes form, it has NOTHING to do with home/away team 

Let me use and example: If someone comes home to visit me in my apartment, we might shake hands. So I raise my right hand. Now my visitor is supposed to raise his right hand. Clearly it is then the hand that is located on his right that should be lifted, not the hand that is located on the right side, seen from my "home perspective". Even if a reporter was watching this handshake standing behind me (the host), the reporter would still say that the visitor raised his right hand (because "his right hand" means exactly that - the hand that is on the right seen from the owner of the hand). 

Hope this example clears some things up. If not, just forget the "home/away theory" and trust the the match report wording is correct (If it says "United moved up the right wing", then it is always Unitied's right wing. If it says "United's left defense allowed City to come through", then it is United's left defense that allowed City's right wing to come through). 

Regarding the issue of people scoring on the "wrong" wing: Wing attacks often take the form of one player coming through on the (you guessed it...) wing and then make a pass into the middle. That means that it is often NOT the left winger that actually scores after the a left flank attack - in fact the other winger (but more often the strikers) or some other player, midfielder or even defender, has moved into the box near the goal and get to finish the attack off. 

So, don't pay too much attention to who is actually scoring on a regular attack (things are different for "special event attcks", which are "individual achievements" to a much larger extent). What matters is if it is the left, right, middle (or set piece) that is generating the chance. Trust that part and consider the "who is scoring" as less important. 

17 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: beltsov (1767768.30), answering 1767768.25 
24-09-2004, at 10:51 
the match orders page is upside down. 

I disagree. It is not upside down. Most people start reading a page from top to bottom. Most teams number their players from keeper to striker. Most people tend to start with the keeper when listing their team. Many (if admittedly not all) similar charts are oriented this way. 

Flipping the page now would just confuse 400.000 users while not providing something profoundly better. Both orientations are possible and have their pros and cons. We've chosen this one and so we will stick to it. 

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18 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: jarlrasm (1779268.68), answering 1779268.40 
28-09-2004, at 13:00 
I think they've messed those countries up a bit.. 

No we haven't. People please stop assuming we are stupid just because you don't understand our reasoing in various issues...! ;) That goes, by the way, for most cases when you think other people are stupid. Most usually "those other people" are not stupid - more often they just have access to different (usually better) information than you. 

No one (to my knowledge) has requested that we add Kazakhstan, but there is a nice group of dedicated Kazhaks who have submitted their offer in helping out creating and promoting that league. Now, we cannot be sure of that, but we know for certain that "potential" is not the most important factor when determining which countries grow fast. Just look at China - 1.2 billion people, most of which are crazy about football, crazy about games and yet hardly no HT users. There are many reasons why it isn't bigger. Lack of "prophets" and lack of translation being the two foremost. Now, we're not considering any Kazakh translation yet ;) but at least the other factor (existing users who have expressed a willingness to promote it locally) looks better than for Kazakhstan. 

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19 HT-Johan 
Is the chance that a goalkeeper gets injured the same as an outfield player? 

I’m not sure, but i don’t think so. 

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20 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: Iedereen (2003552.20), answering 2003552.1 
07-11-2004, at 15:57 
Don't blame the engine for your lack of understanding of it. "Luck" or "back luck" tend to be the knee-jerk reaction to the unpleasant fact that someone has not yet fully mastered all aspects of the game. Blaming losses on "bad luck" will not help you reach the top series - in fact it will prevent you from refining your tactic, will prevent you from learning the game engine. 

Random is part of any game (including real-life football as well as Hattrick) or indeed any aspect of life in a complex world. However, it matters every little for long term results, and it even matters very little for the outcome of all but a very small number of matches. 

21 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: myszka-ns (2003552.27), answering 2003552.21 
07-11-2004, at 16:23 
But the lottery is bigger and bigger :(. 

No it is not. You are mistaken. Random is not more important, it is less important. 

In last seasones was lottery but it was very little. In this season lottery rule Hattrick :(. 

Not true. More likely, it is your understanding of the game that has become obsolete. Learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others, instead of just saying that it is luck, just because you don't understand why a certain team lost. 

Established truths slowly change as the best managers adjust their tactics over time. The longer you cling to old "truths" and treat all deviations from those obsolete "truths" as "random", then the more strange and hostile and "unlucky" your life in the HT world will seem. 

22 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: bbUnica (2003552.32), answering 2003552.26 
07-11-2004, at 16:28 
The real life random is so rare that I haven'r seen a game in which the worst team won against the better team. 

That is because IRL you fully trust your eyes and what you see on the field, and treat all side statistics as secondary. In Hattrick many people do the opposite: They treat the match report (which is what actually happened) as secondary and think that the "truth" about which team was the best lies in the side statistcis (like team and player ratings). 

The game engine similates a match. Step by step it advances through the match and the most important events are spat out as the match report. 

The team ratings specify (more objectively than IRL) what the inparameters were. But, like in your Real Madrid example, inparameters doesn't tell the whole story. 

23 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: bi_ts (2003552.35), answering 2003552.28 
07-11-2004, at 16:35 
So we are all stupid morons.... 

No, I didn't say that. 

I said that none of us (me included) fully grasp the complexity of such a complicated thing as the game engine (or the IRL "game engine"). There is always more to learn. We are all ignorants and we are all knowledgeable. None of us know everything and none know nothing. 

However, to stop learning half-way and start saying that "random is increasing" is to act very foolishly. Random has not increased - in fact it has been made less important in HT 6.6. So, if you perceive the HT-world as less comprehensive, it is more likely to be because your relative understanding of the game engine has fallen behind other managers. This may sound like a harsh statement, but the choice is yours. 

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24 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: HG-bard (2002523.47), answering 2002523.1 
07-11-2004, at 15:46 
If random matters so much - how come some of the best teams tend to win the cup and be in the top series, season after season, over and over again? 

The fact that you cannot predict the outcome doesn't mean it is random. It means that it is a complex game that, just like real-life football, is not easily boiled down to some simple formula and prediction-models. As you know, people usually bet money on real-life football results, and knowledgeable betters do lose IRL too. 

I'm sure that the users here could give hundreds of examples of matches that went "the wrong way". 

"Wrong way" meaning it didn't go as most people predicted? How many people expected the Greeks to win the Euro 2004? You can be lucky in a single match, but you cannot win a tournament on pure luck. The same is true in Hattrick. 

25 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: sjeetje (2002523.51), answering 2002523.49 
07-11-2004, at 16:04 
Is it true that the random element in the cup is higher than in league-matches? 

No, it is completely untrue. I hadn't heard that rumour, but then, there are always so many bizarre rumours going around that I am glad I don't have to hear most of them, 

If the random element had been higher in the cup, then of course the rules had stated so. 

26 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: bbUnica (2002523.53), answering 2002523.50 
07-11-2004, at 16:16 
So, do you thing Greeks won Euro 2004 by being a weak team? 

No, my point is the exact opposite: The Greeks won because they were a BETTER team. However, BEFORE the matches were played, few people realized that they were. I was using them as an example of how difficult it is to PREDICT a result. After the match, it is all very easy - all you have to do is to take a look at the match report. 

By everybody's standards, the "game engine" of Euro 2004 could never had labeled Greece as "weak". 

In fact, it is quite possible to label the separate positions in a winning team as inferior (player by player, or sector by sector) and yet say that the result was fair, if the winner was the one using a superior tactic for that particular match. That is what often happens in HT as well: One team with lower overall ratings use a smart tactic (smart against that particular opponent) and win. Afte rthe match some will just look at the ratings and then whine and say that it was unfair, when in fact it was perfectly fair becuase the winner outsmarted the loser with his tactic or some other subtle trick (for instance using a certain combination of specialist). 

Remember: The ratings do not show everything that mattered in thematch. The match report does. Read it, and then read it again, and finally read between the lines of the match report. Don't treat the match report as the "wrong" or "dumb" data and the ratings as The Holy Absolute Truth as some does. Quite often it can be the other way around. 

27 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: brunop (2002523.78), answering 2002523.76 
07-11-2004, at 23:36 
Iemand beweert dat in zijn ogen defensie te zwaar meetelt (dat is ook de eerste keer dat ik dat hoor) 

The typical HT defense line still consists of 3 defenders. IRL it is typically 4 defenders. As long as that is the situation: No, I do not think defenders are too dominant in HT. 

As for SE - they are not just random. They take skills into account too. 

28 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: HG-bard (2002523.90), answering 2002523.87 
08-11-2004, at 09:44 
You say that I should forget about the rules I learnt before (that it requires good players and good ratings to win a match) 

LOL, that was indeed an interesting example of twisting someone's word until they take on a whole new meaning... 

I did not say that. Not even close. 

I am saying that anyone who wants to be successful in Hattrick needs to always be willing to add to his/her knowledge, learn new things, and even in some cases question established truths if new evidence come up. 

Of course it requires good players to win. Then top that up with some clever tactics and masterful long-term strategy and you are a sure winner. 

29 From: HT-Bjorn 
To: gixxgp (2002523.107), answering 2002523.101 
08-11-2004, at 14:05 
This is a kick in the ass to all strategy that there is before the match. What is the point of preparing your match, basing yourself on your team ratings and your opponent's one, when you will have proof of your superiority or your inferiority only when you could read the match report? 

Of course you will not have proof that you chose the right tactic until after the match, when you know what tactic your opponent chose, and how the tactic that you chose worked out against that which your opponent chose. 

To answer your question: The point of preparring your match is to give yourself as good a chance as possible. To do so you use your knowledge of your own team, along with guesses about how your opponent's team will look and what tactic they will use. This is in no way different in HT from IRL. 

30 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Rupii_ZPF (2002523.108), answering 2002523.105
08-11-2004, at 14:11 
Match report is the only data available for us. If it doesn't say everything 'bout our team's quality then what does? Our imagination? ;P 

Who says match report doesn't say everything??? I didn't say that. I said the ratings doesn't say everything. The match report has further information to add. Some information is only known to the manager of your opponent. That is how it is supposed to be. It is also how it is IRL 

It seems like whatever I say in this thread is twisted into its exact opposite, and then other people use those twisted interpretations to continue debate. So, as soon as I say something it takes only a few posting before new myths are born. I give up. :-( 

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31 From: HT-Bjorn
To: 666kajet 653584.8, answering 653584.1
2003-11-14 18.42 
There have been more factors considered as well. For instance, we'd somewhat rather encourage AOW than AIM because AIM tend to go along with a midfield with wingers playing towards middle, which we think have been used slightly too frqquently (compared to IRL and compared to how we get a broader variation of tactics). AOW on the other hand encourages the use of offensive/normal wingers wich is on the "wanted" list. Differently put, the AOW being slightly (very slightly) more effective in doing its thing than AIM is part of the "lessen the playmaking dominance" package. Not much, but then, the difference you mention between AIM and AOW isn't that much either. 

32 From: HT-Bjorn
To: dturnip 653584.20, answering 653584.18
2003-11-14 20.42 
In a thread before these tactics came out (I think) he mentioned that the chance of an attack coming on the left right or centre was roughly equal. 

I have never said that. 

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33 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Little-P 796145.68, answering 796145.62
17-01-2004, at 21:36 
before you state that. Schweiz played 24,5* stars on the midfield, norway 23*, Schweiz couldn't even have played 20* with 4. 

Never use stars to compare teams. Only use them to compare players. 

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34 By: HT-Bjorn
1484496.132 as reply to 1484496.1
11/7-2004 at 20.36 
A few clarifications: 
* We have not changed the crowd formula. I repeat: Not changed. It is the exact same
formula as it has been for as long as I can remember. Given a certain level of
supporter mood before the match, it will be the same results as last seasons
(assuming all other circumstances identical). 
* I am convinced that there is no bug in the crowd formula. Bugs don't appear out of
thin air - someone must have changed something for them to appear, and we have not
changed anything. 
* We did change, in HT 6.6, the formula for how fans are affected after the match by
certain results. The new formula gives on average the same level of effect as
previously - it is NOT generally more harsh. It is tilted to reward small wins and
punish small losses, compared to the old formula which was more benign to small
losses if there were loads of goals, and more harsh against small wins if there were
few goals. These changes are described in the HT 6.6 document. 
* The crowd size (for league matches) is a function of: 
¤ What match round (the later in the season, the more important matches, according
to the minds of the inhabitants of the HT universe). 
¤ The difference of league position between the teams (importance) 
¤ The league position of the home team 
¤ The size of the fanclubs 
¤ The supporter moods 
¤ The weather 

35 By: HT-Bjorn
To: one_to7 1484496.147 as reply to 1484496.141
11/7-2004 at 20.56 
Does pulling back actually change anything? And if so, what/how? 

Of course it changes things. I always thought the wording of that event gives
sufficient clues as to what happens - says something about caring less about attack
and more about defending, right? ;) 

36 By: HT-Bjorn
To: dnbrt 1484496.153 as reply to 1484496.142
11/7-2004 at 21.01 
- why is this the first time this happens? 

It isn't. It's just the first time enough people have read the HT 6.6 document,
remembered only 10% of it ("it was something about them changing things related to
supporter mood"), seeing a low crowd size and jumping to conclusions in the
conference. 

- there still is the matter of users who have just upgraded, and now found out that
there is much less chance that they will get their stadium filled. 

There isn't less chance. There have been no general worsening of spectator outcome.
The one change, to the supporter mood, is neither worse nor better than the old one. 

We weren't warned on advance about this. 

But there isn't any "this"! :) 

37 By: HT-Bjorn
To: worcaholic 1484496.157 as reply to 1484496.144
11/7-2004 at 21.03 
thx for the infos, but I'm missing one factor: randomness. or isn't there any kind
of random within this calculation? 

Somewhat surprisingly: No, random is not part of these formulas (except indirectly
that weather is a function of random). 

38 From: HT-Bjorn
To: cube_
1484496.159, answering 1484496.149
11-07-2004, at 21:06 
It's pretty hilarious as in every country there are so much threads about it TODAY and there wasn't week, two weeks or couple of weeks ago ! 

More people in the Middle Ages were convinced that the Earth was flat than there is today. That doesn't mean there was any actual unflattening of the physical Earth by the time of Copernicus. 

39 By: HT-Hasse
To: bannock 1484496.185 as reply to 1484496.178
11/7-2004 at 21.56 
First of all you have to realize that 7-0 is not only a big loss - it is a disaster.
And the system has open ends - there is not maximun or minimum output of any of the
parameters. If one of them gives a very extreme input it is bound to have a big
influence on the output. 
Secondly, unlike IRL there are no "my" and "his" in this context. The parameters do
not calculate two separate crowd numbers independently which are added together.
They calculate one single crowd. 

40 From: HT-Bjorn
To: MountainHawk 1484496.208, answering 1484496.207
12-07-2004, at 00:01 
Yeah! You clearly forgot the square root! Everyone knows the HT's love square roots!! 

LOL 

41 From: HT-Hasse
To: Bayernstark 1484496.250, answering 1484496.244
12-07-2004, at 13:09 
Don’t you think it might be wise to consider a limit 

We don't like limits in any parameters. 

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42 From: HT-Tjecken
To: OgtheDim (2027150.13), answering 2027150.8
12-11-2004, at 15:34 
In our opinion this game is not as good as it can be, there are still things that can get a lot better. I think you all agree on this. In order to make this game better, we must change things and add new features to the game as there are no other way to make it better. 

With 500k customers, there's simply no way we can add a feature or make a change without some of you not liking it. But as you and me want this game to develop, there will be times when we can't make everyone happy every time. You'll like most changes, you'll maybe dislike one or two of them and there will be things you don't care at all about. And most of the things you dislike from the beginning you'll adopt sooner or later and start treating them as normal. 

When reading the above, you'll maybe understand why we can't make all new features optional (as this feature). The list would be enormously long and creating a risk feeling you're not playing the same game as another user. So, we must draw the line for what can, and what can't, be optional somewhere. 

Most things in this game will remain the same, but not all things. This feature is a part in a very important project making the game easier to adopt for newbies. Just because you and me had to find the info ourselves it's not unnecessary to make some things easier to adopt. 

Finally, does this make us not listening to you (the community, our customers) at all? Of course not. We listen to what you have to say and take all of it under consideration when developing the game. But as I said above, we can't make everybody happy if we want to continue to develop the game. And we want to continue doing so. 

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43 From: HT-Hasse
To: fidemaster (2053056.20), answering 2053056.19
17-11-2004, at 15:04 
Well, I retired after the 2000 season so I can not say for sure what has happened after that. Another problem is that each country has its own translation of the original text and that might result in slight variations due to language issues. 

We were to tick a box on the matchreport for each yellow card and we had two boxes to choose from: 

1. Something which could be translated as "foul play" or similar. This included bad tackles, pushes, handball and all other physical offences during play. 

2. "Unsportsmanlike conduct", which included things like protests, bad comments to other players, sabotage of free kicks etc, diving, exaggerated celebrating of goals, wearing of dangerous jewellery etc. 

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44 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Sb8heand 2047484.17, answering 2047484.15
16-11-2004, at 12:37 
Correct, there is in fact one single player with excellent leadership. And he was created the "natural way", so there is a chance for a player to get excellent leadership - even if it's a very, very, very, very, very, very little chance.  

45 From: HT-Hasse
To: Kaybol (2047484.101), answering 2047484.49
16-11-2004, at 16:41 
Bob Sunesson's effect on TS was never confirmed, and even denied by the HT's. 

Of course it is. How team spirit works is well described in the rules. 

46 From: HT-Hasse
To: Tjosan (2047484.122), answering 2047484.117
16-11-2004, at 17:18 
Whoever tried to deny Bob was tweaked? None of the persons present at the time had anything to do with that fact though. 

Bob was pulled like any other youth but was later tweaked (as an Easter egg) when it comes to his beloved team member thing. 

47 HT-Hasse 

More or less correct but the fact that it used to be my player had no part in it. Neither had I any part in giving him this face. 

Basically the story was that when the player faces were introduced those in the HT-team who worked with that wanted 2-3 players who were special for some reason, to give them special faces as a sort of easter-egg. This happened a while after the introduction of the faces. With Wozniak being the first non-Swedish superstar in the game he was an obvious choice. Especially since he also played in the very first World Cup final. 

The other players were Bob Sunesson and Marc O'Farrel. I don't know the story about O'Farrel. 

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48 HT-Hasse 
The TS penalty was introduced to penalise daytraders. 

Actually it was not. It had nothing at all to do with daytrading. That it hurt some kinds of daytrading was just a side-effect. 

Ok that is fine, but can you explain what was the reason it was introduced? 
Surely not just for realism? 

Yup. That was the sole reason. This was also stated in the information that was published at the time. 

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49 HT-Hasse 
(it staat voor secundaries) 

I don't know the current parameters of the match engine (mainly because I do not want to) but in my personal experience it has a lot more impact even today than what people generally think. 

When I start restructuring my team (which will happen pretty soon) I will build a team which is quite different from the one I have today. 

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50 HT-Hasse 
over economie: 
(Naar aanleiding van een vraag over geld die via transferkosten uit de economie stroomt) 

Actually the total ammount of money is constantly increasing. 
thats not surprising given the user base is constantly growing too.... how about the money per team? 

That is increasing too. 

I'm curious to know if you know how much the total amount of money should increase every season in order to keep up with the training? 
Do you have well defined formulas for that relation? 

Since it is not possible to predict influx of new users etc that is not possible. Furthermore it depends on what and how people train. 

Instead economy is constantly monitored. 

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51 HT-unknown (waarschijnlijk HT-Hasse) 
over de duurder wordende stadions 

2. It will hurt new teams. 

Yes it does. Just like a lot of other changes throughout the years have benefited new teams. Like the number of times the money they start with has been increased (currently they start with 300-500% of what many teams started with, including my own). Or the fact that they now start with a bigger stadium that I did, for instance. 

The fact that some changes in the game might affect some groups of users in a negative way will never stop us from changing things we believe benefits the game as a whole. 

Doubling the maintenance fees will force teams that can't fill up their stadiums to loss alot of money. thus they will diminish their stadiums 

And why would we want to do that? There is no gain for Hattrick in making them lose more money than they currently do. 

52 From: HT-Hasse
To: Suli_sul
2178495.55, answering 2178495.54
13-12-2004, at 18:28 
True, but you didn't say wether the entire construction (30k Euro + seats)will be doubled, or just seats 

We said that the costs for increasing your stadium will be doubled. If you cannot figure out what that means I really think, no offense, that the problem is in your end. Both the above mentioned are among the costs you need to pay to increase your stadium. Hence both will be doubled. 

If just the latter would have been doubled the announcement would have said so. 

53 From: HT-Hasse 
To: bdleersn 
It is not a punishment. Such talk is nonsense. But they will have to pay the costs every time they increase their stadium, just like they get to enjoy the 10% increase of ticket prices every match they play and all other changes that have been made throughout the years that benefit them. 

With your way of reasoning we would never be able to change anything in the game since there are always groups that suffer or benefit from every change. 

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54 From: HT-Hasse
To: Gorgon 2178495.99, answering 2178495.90
14-12-2004, at 09:52
The point is not to offend or to avoid diplomacy. The point is to be as short and clear as possible, in order to avoid further confusion.

I really think people would save themselves a lot of worries and uncertainty if they read exactly what is written in all the different announcements that are being published. The constant problem is that people try to read things that are simply not there to be read. That is what creates confusion.

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55 HT-Tjecken
over het uitbreiden van het aantal divisies in (2035249.23):

I will not go in to details, but there are some really good reasons why we can't change the series system without doing a total redesign. A total redesign is not something we plan to do as it will be very time-consuming. Very. Or in other words so very time-consuming that it's in fact impossible.

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56 By: HT-Hasse
To: Helker (2184210.33) as reply to 2184210.1
14-12-2004 at 18:03
Over het verhuren van spelers

Suggestions with a lot of thought behind is great! However, when it comes to this specific case the basic idea is about as old as Hattrick itself. There are a number of reasons why this is extremely unlikely to ever be realised. First of all it opens up for abuse in several ways.

The biggest reasons though are the ones below:

* It would seriously hurt the market. It would make it a lot more difficult to sell certain types of players.

* It would benefit the extremely rich clubs, who can afford buying lots of players and then rent them to others and get them trained. After that they can recall them and sell them with an enormous profit.

* It would be a disaster for not so rich clubs. They can not afford to buy a lot of players and rent them to others. Furthermore these are the clubs who have average players for sale. Those players would become virtually impossible to sell. Those teams would be left behind for good.

57 By: HT-Hasse
To: Allanamin 2184210.36 as reply to 2184210.34
14-12-2004 at 18:24
Who would rent his players to someone if they did not get trained? I would certainly not do it. Every week the player gets older and is not trained properly he loses value.

It would also still be devastating to the market. Instead of buying players lots of users would rent players.

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58 By: HT-Hasse
To: ricouryves 2190245.5 as reply to 2190245.1
15-12-2004 at 20:22
Het gaat hier over het ondersteunen van friendly cups in hattrick.

Hattrick used to have a system similar to that but it did not work since a lot of organizers did not take the full responsibility to manage their cups properly. Starting cups was obviously more fun than actually taking care of them. It is highly unlikely to come back in any form.

59 By: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2190245.9 as reply to 2190245.6
15-12-2004 at 20:50
Because it creates more trouble than it adds to the game.

That people do not play friendlies or do not use all supporter features does not hut anyone else than themselves. When someone starts a cup and then abandons it hurts others and creates extra work for our GMs.

It was removed for a reason and will most likely never return

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60 HT-Hasse
(2212022.26)
I thought the amount of supporters that entered, depend on the team you played against..

That has no effect whatsoever in the league. The only things that affect supporter mood in the league is if you win/draw/lose and the number of goals you produce/let in.

In the cup however, it matters what league level (division) the team you play is in. If I, who play in the top league in Sweden, lose against a team from division VII, my supporters will probably put out a contract on my head. But if I do better and eventually lose to a team from division I, they will only be slightly upset (if I don't go out 9-0 or something like that).

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61 By: HT-Tjecken
To: grmbl (2193928.43), answering 2193928.20
20-12-2004, at 18:17
("This discussion" is de discussie over verdediging die minder belangrijk is (zou zijn) dan aanval)

This discussion has been brought up a couple of times lately, as well in the past. Lately much because of Lokomotiv Lund's matches in Allsvenskan made a very offensive tactic/strategy more known to the global public.

The outcome of these discussions are also very interesting in a way, because most ppl just claim "defence doesn't matter" like an old mantra over and over again. Which of course sooner or later will be known as the "truth". Well, is this "truth" really the truth then?

No, of course not. Defence does matter. Just as there are proof for "offence is more important than defence" there's proof for the opposite situation. Many of Lokomotivs Lund's matches have been shown as great examples of how the offensive is so much more important than defence lately, but not that many posts tells you when he lost by 10-0 or the two losses against EM Tigers, who actually won both these matches because of a strong defence.

Isn't it a problem at all then?
Well, there is a problem in a way as many teams tend to put more effort in their team's offense than their defence. Out of two reasons I guess:
- It's generally more fun to play in an offensive way, no matter if it's good or bad.
- The "truth" above, which makes team put even more effort in their team's offence.

The result of this is that more teams will have a stronger offence than defence, and when the offence becomes better than the defence overall the better part is logically the winner. This will of course encourage more teams to think that "defence" doesn't matter, which will make things even worse of course.

So the real problem is, if there is a problem, that many teams put much more effort in their offence than their defence. But that doesn't make the defence useless, because many teams show how important a good defence is. Like EM Tigers for instance.

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62 By: HT-Hasse
To: septimusjm 2212022.18 as reply to 2212022.16
20-12-2004 at 17:31
Yes, in theory that would be better. In reality it is not realistic though. For instance, in match 1 of the season the two newly promoted teams meet. Quite often one of them wins, giving them quite a good league position after round 1.

In round 2, however, they are going to play one of the two top ranked teams, perhaps even away. The result would normally be quite a massive loss which then would kill your supporter mood, especially if that team lost to the other top ranked team the week before. Hattrick would count that as a top team (the lousy newly promoted one) lost to a bottom team (in reality probably the best or second best team in the league). The consequences would be absurd to both teams. A very good team would get loads of new supporters for beating a really weak side, and the weak team would lose lots despite losing to a much better team.

As for the cup it has already been made a lot less painful to lose in general

63 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Loke_ (2212022.109), answering 2212022.95
21-12-2004, at 13:01
Blijkbaar is de HT-economie nog niet helemaal stabiel (en is er sprake van deflatie):

I can understand why many users, just like you, want a change about the attendance calculation as the attendance today are a little bit lower than two seasons ago. But (hehe - there had to be a but, right? ;)):

The attendance formula has not changed, as I think you know. But the attendance formula is affected by the supporter mood, and that formula was changed two seasons ago which led to a spectator (and income) loss last season. To this season attendance incomes were raised, and teams today (globally) get more attendance income than they got two seasons ago. Not much more, but slightly more.
The fact that we had a huge inflation two seasons ago should also be taken into consideration when discussing this. This means we're back and even past the income figures we had two seasons ago, but I wouldn't worry that much about a new huge inflation as the costs are better optimized than before.

So, the fact is that teams make more money out of spectators today, but still there are complains about the spectators. This, I think, is a pretty normal reaction, as the first thing you see is how many spectators came to watch a game. The overall income from the spectators comes secondly, if one even care to check it out.

Finally some words about the spectators formula. We could of course of course have changed the formula, but we chose to increase attendance money instead. This because the formula is one of those formulas you don't easily change. And as this formula effects the global economy a lot, you better be very sure of what changes it will cause. And in the situation we were in those days we didn't want to risk a huge inflation again nor a bigger deflation. I'm not saying there never will be a change in this formula (and I'm not saying there will be either ;)), but it will in that case require a lot of testing before. And a healthier economical situation. :)

all teams in the bottom of their division, loses supporters, sponsor income and most of all spectator income.

So you think it is strange that losing teams lose fans, sponsors and spectators? I don't. Besides, for some reason you totally "forget" the fact that ticket revenue per ticket was increased this season too. You are also missing that sponsor money is only partially affected by results. The most important factors for sponsors are what level you are in (division) and your spokespersons. I have been losing most of the season but my sponsor money keeps increasing week by week.

Now only an idiot or someone who really don't care about the economic part of the the came, would promote before they're sure that they can be among the top 4

There are a number of statements in this post that implies that you simply do not understand how a lot of the factors work. First of all, you mention sponsor money - the single factor except spokespersons that has the biggest importance for your sponsor money is the league level you are at.

en nog een
The only things that affect supporter mood in the league is if you win/draw/lose and the number of goals you produce/let in.

64 By: HT-Hasse
To: ballord 2212022.55 as reply to 2212022.53
20-12-2004 at 22:16
I'm sorry, but I thought that home factor would also count somehow. Is that wrong?

Yes, you are right. That also plays a part

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Deze is interessant voor het bepalen van de invloed van supporters en league op de opkomst (gemiddeld aantal supporters kan je zien in de supporterstatistieken)

65 By: HT-Hasse
To: DrBLooD 2212022.82 as reply to 2212022.61
21-12-2004 at 00:39
So how about taking a look at more just picture instead of just picking a few matches, carefully selected to prove a non-existent point?

Below is the 20 Swedish series with the highest total attendance so far this season. It hardly supports the theory that the biggest crowds come in division III.

Rank Series Total Crowd
1 A 2,669,254
2 Ib 2,445,256
3 Ia 2,191,579
4 Id 2,084,586
5 IIh 1,810,724
6 IIm 2,056,888
7 IIn 1,703,095
8 IIo 2,053,330
9 IIk 1,578,861
10 IIg 1,833,706
11 IIa 1,764,395
12 IIl 1,852,822
13 Ic 2,009,250
14 IIj 1,820,445
15 IIe 1,792,622
16 IIf 1,716,267
17 IId 1,820,115
18 III.31 1,586,021
19 III.37 1,561,839
20 III.22 1,630,809

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66 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Pranas (2220095.47), answering 2220095.40
22-12-2004, at 16:06
you listen, if it fits you, that's also a fact

Well, in order to develop a game like Hattrick you got to have a vision to what game you want to create (which of course also is based on what game our users want). Some ideas fit the vision, some things may slightly change the vision and some things don't fit the vision at all. But a vision is a must. That said doesn't mean we don't listen, but you're right that we can show that we're listening in a much better way.

Let's say, 1 user wants one feature, and 499k other, you liked first one, which you would choose?
If both ideas are good and possible to implement, why not both?

Second point - there are no doubt more important questions to users than to ask about match time, isn't?
I think match times are very important. But as I said in my earlier post, we could use the poll system more often than today.

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67 From: HT-Tjecken
To: roselan (2193928.105), answering 2193928.103
22-12-2004, at 13:45
6.6 did decrease the importance of keepers in the defense. Does that mean that the exact same team (same sub-form, same everything) will get lower defense rating than pre-6.6?
Nope, au contraire.

68 From: HT-Tjecken
To: MD-JakobTrier (2193928.113), answering 2193928.109
22-12-2004, at 15:50
So it will depend on the strength of the keeper vs the defenders, right? Some teams have a super strong keeper and week defenders...

Ah, didn't think of that possibility really, but you're right. If you had a very good keeper and lousy defenders you might end up with worse defense ratings.

69 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Jambo 2193928.117, answering 2193928.115
22-12-2004, at 16:18
Well, the keeper is still very important.

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70 From: HT-Hasse
To: Jazz23 2237636.13, answering 2237636.9
25-12-2004, at 22:31
No I want 56% to be 56%!!!
That should be 5 chances for one and 4 for other team... not always but average in 100 or 1000 games should be that! 'Cause now team with 56% gets about 75% of chances...

No. On average a team with 56% possession does get 56% of the chances. But you forget that not all chances are reported. The chance has to be good enough to be presented in the match report.

71 From: HT-Hasse
To: Jazz23 2237636.16, answering 2237636.14
25-12-2004, at 22:41
their defence is to weak to stop opponents attack so if they won 5:0 we can say that they got all chances.

Sorry, but you can't. It does not work that way.

72 From: HT-Hasse
To: Jazz23 2237636.20, answering 2237636.19
25-12-2004, at 22:44
And your point is?

Besides, you cannot tell that it is 6:2 in chances. It is 6:2 in reported chances, which is a completely different thing.

73 From: HT-Hasse
To: Jazz23 2237636.31, answering 2237636.30
25-12-2004, at 23:17
If it is a normal chance a team with 54% posession has 54% chance of getting it.

74 From: HT-Hasse
To: el-insaciable 2237636.48, answering 2237636.47
25-12-2004, at 23:55
Actually your statement in this thread made me wonder... When it's calculated which team will get a chance, is there a randomfactor which decides how great the chance is? Or is it only the ratings (with an amount of random too) which has an influence?

I don't know exactly how that works, and I don't want to know too much. It would spoil the fun of the game for me.

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75 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Iedereen (2249571.1)
28-12-2004, at 14:32
I just posted an answer concerning the economical situation today in the Swedish conference, but I think this info could be out of global interest too.

The global economy is feeling very good these days, we have a really nice inflation (which has been going on for the whole season). Higher attendence income and more cupmathes have managed to increase the total amount of money, and have speed up the economy again. The economy will also get some more speed because of the increased price bonus money later this season. Fact is that this speed maybe is a little too high, but as there are increased costs (arena) next season and we've been experiencing some hard economical times lately we'll not do anything about it. At least not now.

76 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Noahito 2249571.45, answering 2249571.38
28-12-2004, at 16:25
Your twisting my words a bit...

Two seasons ago: Huge inflation which crashed
Last season: Deflation (or more or less +/- 0 in fact)
This season: Inflation

If the total amount of money are increasing, tranfer prices will most likely after some time also start to increase.
The opposite happens when it's a deflation, less money in the game will eventually make the transfer prices go down.

77 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Noahito 2249571.63, answering 2249571.50
28-12-2004, at 16:57
But I'm not talking about transfer prices, I'm talking about the global economy (sum of cash (and income and expenses)). And btw, new members are taking into consideration in the figures.

But as I mentioned, the transfer market also follows the state of the global economy. Not by a sudden reaction, but the history shows the transfer prices evaluation slowly follows and adopts to the state of the global economy.

78 From: HT-Tjecken
To: koendb
I'm fully aware that the word I use here (inflation) is not utterly correct. But it's not completely wrong either. I guess you got what I was referring to too?

79 From: HT-Hasse
To: badla
2249571.95, answering 2249571.92
28-12-2004, at 17:56
Let's say you train passing, you can train 14-15 players in passing. After some seasons, won't it just give the same amount of raise in wage as you would have just trained 4 wingers or 6 playmakers?

The point is that you should perhaps consider not to train the same thing "some seasons".

80 From: HT-Hasse
To: saheki
2249571.101, answering 2249571.99
28-12-2004, at 18:17
So you mean, I should have daytraded, I should have stopped aiding the National Teams

No, I mean you should train players in the way you get the most out of his wages, which means you should not train them in one and the same skill season after season.

I also mean you should build a team that is good enough to win your league, not 2 times as good as needed.

When it comes to national team players, well I would never consider training the kind of players most national team coaches seem to prefer. I train players for my team foremost, not for the national teams.

And BTW - I am in the top division too.

81 From: HT-Hasse
To: spekkie 2249571.109, answering 2249571.100
28-12-2004, at 18:32
Exactly! Inflation is influenced by the money supply and by the productivity of the economy. HTs can easily influence the former but it is not clear to me how they limit the ever improving skills of the players.

You really hit the spot here without knowing it. Because this is how most people think. Like someone wrote in an excellent post a bit above people focus too much on how things used to be instead of thinking about how they can adapt to the present situation.

You wrote "it is not clear to me how they limit the ever improving skills of the players". Well, the answer to that is very simple; by making players who are trained to insane levels in one skill very expensive to keep.

Change after change in the last few seasons have aimed to encourage people to train versatile players who are good in several useful skills rather that ridiculously extreme in one single skill. Still people insist on training players to divine ++ levels. Well, if you fail to get the message sent by the news in the game then don't blame the game if things don't exactly work out the way you hope them to.

The successful manager is the one who can combine old knowledge gathered by others with own inventive thinking and sharp decisions based on recent events. The user who bases his game on the numerous how-to guides around will never be a top-class manager at a competitive level.

82 From: HT-Hasse
To: Mandrake 2249571.195, answering 2249571.186
28-12-2004, at 22:35
Just as much as I care for any other SE.

Well, I interpret that as you don't and if that is the case you have certainly missed an important part of Hattrick strategy.

As I said, even though you found it ridiculous, its like caring about defence for forwards so one can play pressing. Both add nothing to team ratings but some to a tactical skill.

So what are you more interested in - winning or team ratings? Carefully building a team with a good selection of special skills can considerably increase your results. SE goals are not about luck in the long run.

I believe having a forward with divine scoring gives me better general attack ratings than a supernatural with supernatural passing, even though they take quite a similar time to train.

Well that might be right, though I am not dead certain. But I would definitely choose an extra-terrestrial/supernatural in front of a divine scorer with nothing else.

Of course, better players need better wages: but the BEST players were affordable by the BEST teams.

Well, your interpretation of what the best player is is simply wrong for several positions.

I think the current wage rate for 1 high skilled player is exaggerated and crazy. Just look at Carey.

The only thing insane about Carey is to train him to that level, which BTW is something his owner has been very well aware of for lots of seasons. He just did it because he thinks it is fun.

83 From: HT-Hasse
To: shinzui 2249571.237, answering 2249571.233
29-12-2004, at 00:07
I think the weights for secondaries need to be increased to make it more practical for combo training.

What would be the point if people in the conferences still claim "It is estimate that for the striker position 1 level of scoring is equal to 4 levels of passing." or "the game engine does not treat a world class scoring/excellent passing striker as equal to a titanic scoring/wretched passing striker" without having well-founded ground for statements like them even if they are still not correct?

84 From: HT-Hasse
To: shinzui 2249571.253, answering 2249571.243
29-12-2004, at 00:46
Open up all the weights so that managers can see exactly what they are and you wouldn't have any question of mistaken estimations.

Revealing the formulas of the match engine is definitely something we will never do.

I should add though that there is no ratio or exchange rate between scoring and passing for instance. They are two different things. It would be like trying to answer how many kilos a minute is.

85 From: HT-Hasse
To: svinefar 2249571.256, answering 2249571.244
29-12-2004, at 00:56
Why do we even have this conversation about secondaries when we are discussing economics?

Because they go together. A big reason many (mainly top) clubs have a hard time with economy is because their teams are built the wrong way.

Do you think that you have reacted fast enough to the clear signs of deflation?

I would rather say that we perhaps did not react fast enough to the massively overheated economy we had a couple of seasons back. That situation was not healthy, while economy as a whole is quite ok nowadays.

86 From: HT-Hasse
To: Loke_ 2249571.261, answering 2249571.259
29-12-2004, at 01:06
So passing and scoring are not both contributing to attack ratings.

I never said that. Think of it like a highjumper - he needs both strength and speed to jump high, but that does not mean that strength and speed are two different ways of measuring the same thing.

87 From: HT-Hasse
To: shinzui 2249571.378, answering 2249571.375
29-12-2004, at 20:20
The biggest problem I see with the game currently is that the HTs have created a situation where hardly anybody wants to strive to reach the highest division in their country. Because you have insured that any team that reaches the highest division will flirt with bankruptcy.

Sorry, but you have either not understood much of what I have answered you or you have simply ignored it. Lots of your comments are based on totally false presumptions. If you continue to stubbornly insist that the system is wrong rather than adapting to it and build your team accordingly, yes then you will probably go bankrupt or fall through the system. If you however choose to be a bit more open to the fact that it is perhaps you who are doing things the wrong way you will probably not. Banging your head against the wall might feel easier to accept on a psychological level, but it won't get you anywhere.

I am not saying that you are stupid. It took me quite a while to get the message too, and then I still had the advantage of closer proximity to the persons who engineered the system. But in the end it all comes down to the fact that those who can interpret and adapt to the situation will master the situation, while those who do not will fail. A large proportion of the latter will probably blame the game, because it lies in the nature of the human mind to try to find explanations outside our own actions to things that go wrong.

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88 From: HT-Tjecken
To: yo_anad (2193928.244), answering 2193928.238
30-12-2004, at 11:09
Midfielders also make impact on the total defence, just like the defenders and the keeper. So, this announcement only speaks about defending.

89 From: HT-Bjorn
To: yo_anad (2193928.251), answering 2193928.238
30-12-2004, at 12:01
The My Hattrick announcement is a bit ambiguous.

it starts with a declaration to amend something wrong between midfield-defence-keepers, but the actual amendment it states only corrects issues between defence and keepers.

Good point. However, you cannot skip your goalie, but you can skip one of your defenders and put him as a midfielder, and this is what many have done, creating the once-almighty-now-just-dominant 3-5-2, and also other common tactics like 3-4-3 with two repositions.

By improving the weight of defenders (backs) (rather than defence which includes goalies and the defensive contribution of midfielders) in the game engine, we encourage those who wish to go from a 3-back defence to a more IRL-like 4-back defence, because defenders now pay slightly more off than before.

90 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Buggle (2193928.273), answering 2193928.263
30-12-2004, at 17:11
Ya maybe, but doesn't it logically follow from what he said.

Dude, I am not crazy enough to rely on people to only draw the logical conclusions from what I write! ;-))) Quite often it is the exact opposite, so if we had indeed wanted to change the winger (or playmaking) effect of defenders, we certainly would have specifically said so.

I should clarify my previous statement (new stuff in italics):

By improving the weight of defenders (backs) (rather than increasing the weight of defence which includes goalies and the defensive contribution of midfielders) on the defence ratings in the game engine...

My statement is now a lot more unwieldy and bureaucratic, but strictly speaking more correct. :-)

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Hattrick » USA » Get rid of National teams

91 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen (2246244.20), answering 2246244.1
27-12-2004, at 22:57
It is very simple. The National Teams provide two huge benefits to the game:

1. It is fun. Most people think it is fun. Of course there are people who do not think it is fun. Everything is like that. Some people don't use the conferences. That is not an argument for removing the conferences. Some people (bizarre as it may sound) don't even think Hattrick is fun. That is not a reason for removing Hattrick. (Yes, I know your main argument against NTs wasn't that you didn't think it was fun - but still: The fact that a lot of users enjoy the NTs is a strong argument for keeping it).

2. It provides interesting challenges and depth and complexity to the game. That alone is such a huge benefit to the game that it leaves most other argument insufficient. The NTs are not unfair: Every team in the game can afford to have, for instance, a Saudi Arabia potential U-20 player on the squad. Not having a NT player on your squad is a deliberate decision you've done. It may be wise or it may be unwise, or it may not matter, but at the end of the day it is your own choice. The amount of possible choices, even if non-obvious at first sight, sums up to the depth of this (and any) game. I want Hattrick to have more depth, not less. Hence we will certainly not remove depth-adding features just because some people have chosen not to use them (in fact, by choosing not to use them, they have benefited from the depth anyway).

92 From: HT-Bjorn
To: stevetrash (2246244.26), answering 2246244.24
27-12-2004, at 23:32
Bjorn, can you verify what was said above about experience... it doesn't matter once you get above excellent?
That’s actually the thing that bothers me the most about the NTs.

We always avoid "hard caps", so strictly speaking it keeps mattering, but somewhere around excellent, the effect per additional XP level gets rather small (increasingly small the further beyond your get). Divine contributes SLIGHTLY more than say extra-terrestrial. but very very little.

93 From: HT-Bjorn
To: HomaridII 2246244.72, answering 2246244.71
01-01-2005, at 23:17
It is painfully obvious that many of the changes made during the past couple of seasons would be far less complicated to implement were national teams not around.

And? They are clearly already made, so what is the problem with them having been complicated to implement? Also, being the one who has implemented them, I frankly don't see what you mean about them having been far more complicated because of the NTs.

It is also obvious to many people playing that national teams directly effect how most smart managers manage their club teams,

Yes, as I stated in my earlier posting, this is exactly the point, and very deliberate. As I previously stated, the presence of the national teams means there are more factors to take into consideration for the club manager. From my perspective as game designer, this is very healthy for the depth of the game, and depth is necessary for the game.

which shouldn't be the case in a game intended to be about club teams.

Yes it should.

It saddens me a lot to see that firm claims that "Hattrick should not be... this and that..." is so much more common than "Hattrick could be..." in the conferences nowadays.

Visit the team of many of the top clubs in HT and you will undoubtedly find more than 1 national team player to cut wages and for experience. This is not a coincidence.

Exactly, and it proves my point: NTs add to the depth. Depth provides challenges, especially for the more experienced users (those who have come to grips with the challenges that newbie’s face).

I would ask you now: "Were National Teams not already part of Hattrick, would you implement them now

That is one of the easiest questions I have ever had to answer: You bet I would. The National Teams are one of the best additions in the last few years. I just wish we had been able to do more such improvements.

or would you rather try to incorporate some kind of club champions league or international club cup to the game

The prioritizing between which of those two to implement first was right, yes, National teams was (and would still have been) a way much better thing to implement first, out of those two things.

Not to mention that a large part of the problems Ht's GMs have to deal with. or at least the biggest and more controversial problems that GMs have to deal with are always regarding national teams.

Sorry, but I must disagree again. That is simply not true. Except perhaps, regarding the "most controversial" part of your statement. That it being so proves that many people care and are interested in the national teams.

94 From: HT-Bjorn
To: modred 2246244.99, answering 2246244.92
02-01-2005, at 16:48
*gives up and leaves conference*

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95 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen
30-12-2004, at 04:05
Keep your eyes peeled for the US cup final next week - it will be an exciting battle between one GM (Idigum) and one HT (myself in the guise of Mean Losers FC).

I'm afraid GM-Idigum will have to count as no 1 favourite to the victory though.

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96 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Iedereen (2349939.141), answering 2349939.132
17-01-2005, at 13:07
These recent changes will not hurt newbie’s at all, I think these changes will give newbie’s a much better game experience. It might be harder for them to expand their arena, but making a game easy is not the formula for a good game experience. And game experience is very important, and in fact what this is all about.

It is a better experience to start out small and grow than starting big and shrink. It's a better game experience to be forced to choose between different strategies/actions for your teams growth than having one obvious strategy/action to "choose". So even if the game may be a _little_ more difficult for newbie’s (because they start with 100 supporters and the fact that it will be more costly to expand your arena, even if the need for expanding a 12k arena isn't that big the first seasons), they will for sure gain from a better game experience.

What about the game experience these changes have on our "old" user then? Well, it's not as dramatic as for the newbie’s, but it may force you to think twice before expanding your arena. The costs side of the economy haven't been changed much since the start of Hattrick, which in fact may have hurt the game experience because salaries are the only cost today that really counts. The changes we've made which affects the cost side lately have all been adding game experience, just think of the "change coach" feature today compared to the old one, and we hope that the increased arena expanding costs also will give you a slightly better game experience.
Does this mean that more costs will be increased? Well, maybe - but we will announce such things well in advance on My Hattrick.

Finally, I heard some of you saying things about the economy will be even worse because of this. Let me just remind you all about that the economy is growing (as I stated a few weeks ago) really good, and the new public (and fan) formulas will make it grow even faster as spectator income will be much higher than before.

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97 From: HT-Hasse
To: mind_hunter666 (2359874.4), answering 2359874.1
17-01-2005, at 19:18
Every time something in the game changes someone will gain and someone will lose. The only way to avoid this would be to never change anything at all. Using that principle Hattrick would still be played only in Swedish, with a couple of thousand users only.

On the other hand there are lots of things which are better for you who started now than for others who started previously. For instance you start with an equivalent of 300,000 EURO. When I started I got 75,000 EURO. I also got a smaller stadium (6000) and worse players.

And yes, you start with 100 supporters. But you also start with a lot more generous supporters than those who started a season ago. Most of them have lost a couple of hundred supporters. You will most likely gain quite a lot of supporters right from the start.

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98 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Pranas (2349939.188), answering 2349939.150
17-01-2005, at 15:58
The difference in when you started playing have always mattered, and there is now way to change that from happen if we don't like a game where all new starting teams will be just as good as the best ones in the league. Time does matter, and will always do so - yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Also, I don't agree in your predictions about the gap will be bigger. It may be more expensive to expand your arena, but new users will also start with an arena almost twice (yes, it's almost doubled!) as big as before. With the increase ticket prices they have a chance to make even more money than "older newbie’s", and at the same time be able to invest money in your players (which in fact is really funny, especially for a newbie).

As I said in my earlier post, making a game as simple as possible to reach the skill as older teams have is not the same thing as a good gaming experience. It may be your opinion, but not our. The best game experience is to start with something small and develop it with your own hands (and brain!) to something great, and it should not be as playing a self playing piano.

99 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Pranas 2349939.208, answering 2349939.206
17-01-2005, at 17:57
Yes, sometimes we don't have the same opinion as some of our users. That doesn't mean we don't listen to users. That's in fact two different things.

And if you, or anyone else, see every new feature or every change to the game as "fixing an error", I really recommend you to look at things a little bit differently. Just because we change things don't mean they were wrong before, but we found a way to make them better. We do make mistakes too of course, after all we're human beings, but we don't make mistakes all the time.

100 From: HT-Hasse
To: Pranas 2349939.235, answering 2349939.232
17-01-2005, at 19:40
my mistake, sorry. See? You can try that yourself, it's not so hard admitting your fault.

I resent your childish flame baits and take personal offence from them.

101 From: HT-Tjecken
To: eros22 (2349939.364), answering 2349939.356
19-01-2005, at 12:07
And I also think I've answered on this a few weeks ago, but I'll take it again.

First of all, let me just say (again) that Hattrick is not, and will not be, run after democratic decisions. This doesn't mean we don't listen to your opinions or what the community feels about different things, cause we really take that under consideration when making our decisions.
Why not a real democracy then? Well, someone already answered that one earlier in this thread: Because users don't have all information needed in order to make a decision what's best for the game. Secondly, in order to develop a game there has to be a vision for what you want to create, it's the most important thing. Without a vision you're lost, but what's also important is that you can't have two (or more) different visions. But as all Hattrick users, naturally, don't have the same vision it would mean that all decisions would be based on 500k different visions. Such decisions are not healthy at all for a game like Hattrick (and many other things as well).

That stated we have failed to make you all aware that we listen to what you have to say. We listen, but most of the time we do only just that, not also recognizing that we need to tell you that we listen. Polls are one thing that can be used to improve the communication between developers and users, and polls can be very powerful. The "problem" with polls is that they may give everybody a feeling that the outcome of a poll is what will automatically happen next (depending on the questions asked of course), and then we're back on the above (decisions based on 500k different visions and opinions).
But I certainly hope I (we) can find a way to use polls more regularly, on certain topics and for certain issues, because polls are democratic in the sense that every vote counts equally and that they may be used even by people that do not visit the conferences regularly. We could then use the polls as advice to take under consideration when making our decisions. This is a real challenge, to find a poll system that would work well, but it is something we would like to try

Finally some words about your prediction, an opinion I don't share. What many people seem to forget is that we have increased the income side a lot during the last seasons, for example:
- Increased ticket prices
- Increased sponsor money
- More generous fan formula (which is made even more generous to new teams)
- More generous spectator formula
Apart from this, salaries for new teams are lower today because of the new salary formula.

But in order to keep this an interesting game, we also have to increase costs - because if getting money was easy this game wouldn't be as interesting anymore. I understand your concern and your opinion, but I don't agree in it. :)
I think we'll see more new teams/users staying in the game and finding the game more interesting and challenging now. And I don't expect to see more bankrupt teams either. If I'm right - time will tell.

Anyway, I think I've made myself clear on our views of this, and related(?) ones, topic now. Maybe I shouldn't have "hidden" this answer this far back in the thread, but sometimes you can't choose.

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102 From: HT-Hasse
To: Mad_Dogg 2376294.24, answering 2376294.22
20-01-2005, at 21:22

Read less conferences. Read more rules ;-)

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103 HT-unknown
Derby matches doesn’t gather more people anymore

They never have. I do not know why people are saying that they used to give more spectators in the past, they never have.

nog een leuke

You are absolutely right - we always lie in the conferences! That is in fact why we invented the game from the beginning. It is all a part of a great plan to take over the World. We are just lucky no one else has found out.

*sighs*

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104 HT Bjorn:
The difference between one team's attack ratings and another team's defence ratings, says nothing definite about the chances to score goals. Defence ratings can only be compared with other defence ratings, attack ratings only with other attack ratings.

So you could say: when I met team A, they had poorer defence ratings than team B, (I had the same ratings) - But I still scored more against B. That’s strange.

But you can’t say: I had titanic defence, while he only had magnificent attack. Titanic is better than magnificent, so it has to be a bug that he scored against me.

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105 From: koendb
To: dansyl (2355363.21), answering 2355363.20
28-01-2005, at 15:27
Volgens mij is dit een oude quote van Bjorn, maar zeker weten doe ik het niet :(

"Attack ratings are the way you measure your ability to score on the chances that your midfield creates. "A team with a low amount of self-confidence has trouble putting their opportunities away", meaning its ability in the attack zone (and consequently their attack ratings also) is lowered."

edit: klopt, het is van Bjorn en hij heeft 't gezegd op (of vlak voor) 28 mei 2004
Ik denk ook dat we hieruit kunnen opmaken dat het alleen de ratings beïnvloed.

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106 HT-unknown
over coaches
No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter if you recruit internally or externally regarding the decay.

This is the first time I ever hear about a case like this, but it's too late to check up now as this happened over a year ago.

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107 By: HT-Hasse
To: Kanik 2442988.14 as reply to 2442988.1
30-01-2005 at 13:50
The thing is, to display for example 5 stars as one blue/red/green or any other color.
So what about this change?? Is that possible??

Not very likely I am afraid. Stars are not intended for comparisons between teams and any change that encourages that is sending out the wrong message.

108 By: HT-Hasse
To: pbritton 2442988.29 as reply to 2442988.27
30-01-2005 at 15:15
Even if this not the reason for showing stars, they must be there for some reason, otherwise why show stars at all?

There is one single purpose with the stars - to compare different performances for one and the same player.

109 By: HT-Hasse
To: osci_oscbourne 2442988.31 as reply to 2442988.30
30-01-2005 at 15:19
what about comparing same performances on same position for different players ? :-)

No, that is not the purpose. That it can be used for that when it comes to some positions (i.e. goalies and central defenders played "normal") is another issue, but it is still not the purpose.

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110 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen (2551809.195), answering 2551809.192
14-02-2005, at 07:32
Very well. I have now made a change in the light of the potential threat that a gazillion people unite to play at the same arena, although it would be utterly unlikely that that would happen to the extent that this actually became a problem. Also, I admit that it is a bit unrealistic with even 10 or more matches on the same arena simultaneously.

So, from now on, you cannot challenge teams for a friendly on an arena that is busy (already booked) for a cup match or friendly within the next 7 days. Under certain circumstances it might still happen that two matches are played on the same Stadium complex simultaneously, but normally, it will not happen and in any case, the scenario of a 50.000 teams conspiracy to play at the same stadium is virtually impossible.

(Although I fail to see what the point of such a conspiracy to down the match engine would be).

Of course, this also means that you need to look a bit more before being able to find an arena that is available for friendlies (although high but not top ranking teams (thus still playing on the road in the cup), that are still in the cup are a good shot for finding a pitch that isn't already booked).

111 From: HT-Bjorn
To: MD-JakobTrier 2551809.202, answering 2551809.197
14-02-2005, at 07:52
Will this in any way effect national teams looking for a stadium for a friendly match?

Nope.
Not at the moment at least.

112 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Jude999 2551809.203, answering 2551809.198
14-02-2005, at 07:53
Wondering one thing:
What happens if 2 teams book a game in my stadium before I did. Can I not play my friendly in my stadium ?

You can still play there. This limitation only affects matches on neutral ground. That is, if it is not a match to be played on neutral ground, you are not restrained by the existence of already booked matches there.

113 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen 2551809.205, answering 2551809.204
14-02-2005, at 08:19
Also, I've now added another feature that is relevant to this thing:

On your (indeed any) arena page, you can now see upcoming matches on that arena. This is useful both for those who plan to arrange a friendly on a neutral ground, and for arena owners who are curious who are arranging matches on your own arena. :)

114 HT-Bjorn
over friendlies op neutral terrein
No, you do not get bigger crowds.

This is something that have been requested by people who organize friendly cups, who can now have the final being played on neutral ground, just like the "real" cup.

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115 From: HT-Tjecken
To: GM-Ramuuns 2517078.22, answering 2517078.20
09-02-2005, at 11:35
And no not all GMs are created equal there are global GMs (the boses) and there are country GMs.
Let me just comment on this because it's wrong and I don't want to create any space for new myths. :)

There are global GMs and there are local GMs (responsible for one country). There are also an organization within the GM group with different responsibilities, so there are some "bosses". But the global GMs are not bosses for the local GMs. A global GM and a local GM is equal in "rank".

Let me also say that the different responsibilities are only for internal issues.

116 From: HT-Tjecken
To: MOD-CoachOle 2517078.54, answering 2517078.52
09-02-2005, at 16:57
Hmmm, and where do the likes of AlenS and darkjesus fit into it all?
---------------------------
They're classed as workers too aren't they?I don't know about these two in particular, but I know that there are some LAs who haven't gotten their prefix, because the language they are working on is still not released. That could be it.

Bingo. :)

117 From: HT-Hasse
To: Rokavo 2517078.110, answering 2517078.27
10-02-2005, at 15:38`
HT's just sit there and watch the community grow (looking at a counter), occasionally stopping this activity to watch The Simpsons :P

I don't like the Simpsons :-P

118 From: HT-Hasse
To: pdjacks 2517078.113, answering 2517078.111
10-02-2005, at 15:43
Not even Maggie??

Sorry, but I don't even know who that is. I only know about Bart and Homer.

119 From: HT-Hasse
To: pdjacks 2517078.114, answering 2517078.112
10-02-2005, at 15:44
If you're still here HT-Hasse, how do you feel about how Hattrick has progressed since it's early days? And do you feel that it will evolve as much in the future?

*lol* That is like asking me to explain the meaning of life or what to answer if a woman asks you "Do you think I should wear the blue dress or the re dress?".

In the first case I would answer "42" and in the second I would just run :-)

120 From: HT-Hasse
To: pdjacks 2517078.120, answering 2517078.117
10-02-2005, at 15:51
lol :-)
I know the feeling, but hey still it's better than if a man asked you.

Then at least I could provide an honest answer without risking extreme pain and permanent injury.

121 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.122, answering 2517078.118
10-02-2005, at 15:52
you don't like women? ;)

I love women, but like any sensible man I am scared to death of them and go about just as carefully as I would do with a poisonous snake :-)

122 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.124, answering 2517078.121
10-02-2005, at 15:53
what would that be? "Don't wear any clothes, darling!" ???

Probably more like "Whatever. I don't give a f*** what your wear. Now gimme another beer man!" ;-)

123 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.126, answering 2517078.125
10-02-2005, at 15:57
Lol... So you like beer? So Bjorn says to you: "Hey Hasse, get some beers, we got another 10000 users captured!" ??

Both Björn and myself are single-malt guys more than anything else :-)

124 From: HT-Hasse
To: pdjacks 2517078.130, answering 2517078.127
10-02-2005, at 16:03
Do you have a favourite blend?

I never buy blends. Only single-malt.

125 From: HT-Hasse
To: pdjacks 2517078.134, answering 2517078.132
10-02-2005, at 16:13
Somewhat simplified a blend is a blend (duh!) between different whiskies, while a single-malt is one individual whisky.

Most whisky which is sold is blended.For instance all your well-known brands like Grant's, Johnnie Walker, Bell's etc. are blends, while brands like Laphroaig, Ardbeg, Bowmore Macallan etc. are single-malts.

A good link for further reading:
(www.whiskyweb.com)

126 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.135, answering 2517078.133
10-02-2005, at 16:14
BTW: Here's something for you! Do you understand german? (www.super-mega.de/traumfrau.php3)

Yes, I understand some basic German but the page did not work properly.

127 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.138, answering 2517078.136
10-02-2005, at 16:18
I bet you didn't use IE, did you?

Nope.

128 From: HT-Hasse
To: iRev-Red 2517078.147, answering 2517078.145
10-02-2005, at 16:26
I stalk him too. He normally posts great information about Hattrick, although his whiskey lecture was worth a read as well. Very enlightening. I guess Hattrick isn't his only forte.

Then let me continue that lecture :-)

Whiskey = Irish stuff.

Whisky = Scottish.

Now there are certainly some good Irish ones to, but personally I am almost 100% on the Scottish stuff :-)

And for the guy who wanted information about the match engine - if you play against a team whose name has anything to do with chickens you should always play your reserves and PIC. Otherwise you will be plagued by injuries :-P

129 From: HT-Hasse
To: yo_anad 2517078.150, answering 2517078.148
10-02-2005, at 16:31
If I play after drinking one blended malt and one single malt - would it be considered that I'm PICing?

No, it would be considered blasphemy :-P

130 From: HT-Hasse
To: MonsieurBon 2517078.151, answering 2517078.149
10-02-2005, at 16:32
BTW: would you play a friendly?

When I am out of the cup I will get back to flagchasing and I prefer to go for the really small leagues.

131 From: HT-Hasse
To: Fopper 2517078.226, answering 2517078.225
20-02-2005, at 23:21
The brand you call up, are nice ones, I want to add: Lagavulin

That is one of my favourites too. Lagavulin is also among the distilleries I have visited IRL :-)

You can find a few pictures from the trip, including 2-3 from Lagavulin, here:
(www.flickr.com/photos/ior67/sets/77643/)

132 From: HT-Hasse
To: Kusito 2517078.229, answering 2517078.228
20-02-2005, at 23:50
Yes I went to Talisker. Actually I was a bit disappointed with Skye. did not find it as beautiful as most people say. But I went on from there to the Outer Hebrides and that was a blast. I visited North and South Uist, Lewis and Harris.

When it comes to distilleries the best visits were IMHO Highland Park (Orkney), Ardbeg (Islay) and Bruichladdich (Ardbeg). What distinguished these three is that they were a lot more personal than the rest. Most of the others had very professional guides who were really impersonal and really made you feel like a tourist. In especially Highland Park there were very few visitors and everything was very laid-back. Ardbeg and Bruichladdich were very relaxed and personal too. That is why I am currently saving for my own barrel of Bruichladdich :-)

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133 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Sir_Maertens (2606121.12), answering 2606121.3
21-02-2005, at 01:46
I do not have time to dig deeply into every single example provided here, so I just dove into comparing two of them, that you seem to imply are identical to the extent that they need to have been generated by an identical random sequence. I took the first two from your list that had identical faces, namely number two and three:

Evert Tähkämaa (55448998)
Giorgio Tischler (55252860)

True, these two are the same age and also happens to have exactly identical faces and seem to have the same skill levels. However, as you probably know, the skills are actually stored with loads of decimals and when I compare these two, all the skills differs in the decimals. This cannot possibly be due to training, so in every literal sense, these two players are completely different (except for the face and some attributes that do not have decimals, such as the age).

The hypothesis of an Attack of the Clones can hereby be firmly refuted :)

If there seems to be an upsurge in similar players, it is no doubt because of the Transfer Compare feature that makes it easier to spot them.

134 From: HT-Bjorn
To: PatoBravo (2606121.27), answering 2606121.26
21-02-2005, at 03:41
There is a recurrent theory that players are not individually and randomly generated, istead they are selected randomly from a pre-created database.
Do you wish to clarify this?

They are generated on the fly randomly.

The only thing that is selected randomly from a pre-created database is the names, which realistically only can be created this way of course.

135 By: HT-Bjorn
To: LA-Tsukumo (2606121.17) as reply to 2606121.16
21-02-2005 at 02:14
I've seen a similar thing happening in a larger scale with some non-bot teams. Most of their players were very alike, too much to be just a coincidence.

Didn't you guys read my post?

Two players being "very much alike" is a pure coincidence unless they are identical. I can see the decimals, you can't. I see that they are totally different. if one player has 6.06384764 and another 6.3658374764 you are saying (although you use several such parameters of course) - "Hey, these guys have both 6 - how can that be a coincidence!?".

I say that from a “randomness working properly perspective" 6.06384764 is no more similar to 6.3658374764 than is say 5.274646373.

136 By: HT-Bjorn
To: LA-Tsukumo (2606121.24) as reply to 2606121.22
21-02-2005 at 02:53
here were two teams (they had been just created for 2 new users) with like 9 or 10 players with same names and skills alike is something I cannot accept as a coincidence.

OK, you didn't mention that. However, something that happened 2 seasons ago or more is hardly anything we'd look into now anyway (nor could we). :)

The issue here was weather there is a sudden upsurge in this, and I see no signs about this, except that people are noticing SIMILAR (but not identical players) to a larger extent than before because of the Transfer Compare feature.

Having seen that there is no such new and current problem, I will leave the issue here.

137 From: HT-Bjorn
To: dudup 2606121.30, answering 2606121.29
21-02-2005, at 05:34
Are the skills independently generated

Yes.

138 From: HT-Bjorn
To: one_to7 2606121.32, answering 2606121.31
21-02-2005, at 05:40
And don't you ever sleep? ;)

A HT never sleeps. :)

139 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Sir_Maertens 2606121.216, answering 2606121.53
21-02-2005, at 17:04
Mikkel Randen (54787289)
Dimitri Barrink (55589885)
Marlon Mumment (55439977)
Henrik Robertsson
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 3 300
Wage: 900 €/week

Stamina: passable Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: solid
Winger: weak Defending: passable
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: weak

Benny Molquist (55174303)
Mattias Andersson (55599178)
Hidde Philippe (55569014)
Dickee Johnson (55605164)
Mo van der Varst
Barry van Hassel
Ezio Ciappesoni
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 650
Wage: 716 €/week

Stamina: poor Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: weak

Frank Grensjö (55596208)
Gregorio Van Den Abeele (55518127)
Kjell Dahle
Romicã Ispas
17 years, passable form, healthy

Speciality: Quick

Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 900
Wage: 1 021 €/week

Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: solid Defending: weak
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: wretched

Peter Säflind (54925974)
David Egerton (55379964)
Bucky Hirsh (55716955)
Corné Doeleman (55646015)
Hanspeter Bossard (55433841)
Eduardo Effgen
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 460
Wage: 558 €/week

Stamina: wretched Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: weak

Bert Maessen (55025183)
Joe van Tilborg (55627094)
Zsolt Csont
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 710
Wage: 712 €/week

Stamina: poor Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: poor

Knud-Erik Vinkler (55600707)
Benone Negrea (55499014)
Stefan Wade (55520713)
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 130
Wage: 661 €/week

Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: inadequate Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: poor

Luís Pessoa (54873726)
Evert Tähkämaa (55448998)
Giorgio Tischler (55252860)
Edo Coppens (55585560)
Pancracio Tagle (55636835)
Rutger Bertl
17 years, passable form, healthy

Speciality: Unpredictable

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 220
Wage: 645 €/week

Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor

Tue Frederiksen (55603674)
Patrik Ramfeldt (55605965)
Mike van Sorge (55636327)
Piero Bianchi (55500606)
Sammie Walker
17 years, passable form, healthy

Speciality: Quick

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 240
Wage: 628 €/week

Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: weak

Dom Wainwright (55090255)
Frank Nilsen (55385407)
Martin Strand (55378490)
Adrián Ruiz
17 years, passable form, healthy

Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 420
Wage: 644 €/week

Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: poor
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: poor

Need more?

Ah, finally some solid examples! :-)

Thanks dude, these examples are very helpful.

I've looked into the first two sets of player you have there. The interesting thing is that, yes, some of their skills are identical into the last decimals. This cannot be a coincidence so it is clearly some sort of bug. The interesting thing is that some other attributes, such as the psychological attributes, of these players are not identical. Since these attributes are created at the same routine as the other ones, it should give me a good way of both finding the reason why this happens as well as a workaround for this problem.

*returns to code*

140 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Sir_Maertens 2606121.236, answering 2606121.235
21-02-2005, at 18:50
U-20 teams will be much more exiting without those clones.

My goal is achieved, many people are angry at me now.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Why will U-20 teams be better off and why would people be angry?

141 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Sir_Maertens 2606121.245, answering 2606121.238
21-02-2005, at 19:23
because many 17 year old superpulls have clones in a few different countries. there is a winger type (TSI around 4000) that has been pulled at least 4 times in 4 different countries. If those guys are trained well, they will probably all reach their U-20 teams.

and people who were exploiting the clone thing for many months/years won't be happy if that will disappear... (they will blame me for doing so)

But what the bug did was not to create more of a certain kind of player, for instance very good ones, just that there are clones. But crappy clones have been just as common as good ones, so the general level of YPs has not been affected. I agree though that the U-20 teams could look silly with identical players opposing each other. :-)

As for people taking advantage of bugs, I will shed no tear for them just because that opportunity is taken away from them. :)

Anyhow. The bug is now fixed. The HT equivalent of the clone factory at planet Kamino has now been destroyed by the forces of good (me).

:-)

Thanks to all who helped with providing useful example thus helping me to track down this nasty old bug (yeah it must have been there for ages).

142 From: HT-Bjorn
To: bolla 2606121.248, answering 2606121.241
21-02-2005, at 19:26
and we have in some cases selected players with high passing skill proven by clone-theory before others that we don't know.

Ah, I see... Well, it keeps amazing me how there always seems to be ways of taking advantage of even the most insignificant things somehow. With 500k users, there is always some clever type who comes up with a smart trick. :)

143 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Devil-insanity 2606121.266, answering 2606121.262
21-02-2005, at 19:49
i little bit to quick fixed to be the total truth of the story imo , i just cant believe they would only spot it now and the fix it that easy ??? people are saying this for months maybe even years , tbh i still dont think u told us the truth and i also think we never will find out.

Is your login name perhaps related to the fact that what you just wrote sounds truly paranoid? ;)

I seems the world is full of people who have a world-view similar to the X Files and see government conspiracies and mysterious cover-ups everywhere, but your suspicion is, sorry to spoil the fun, utterly unfounded. We have no reason to do some mysterious cover-up by such a thing and yes, this was an easy fix. Most fixes are easy as soon as you have...

a) Been able to identify that there is actually is a problem, not just some incorrect and diffuse reports
b) Understand why it is happening
c) Can isolate the problem

As it happened, the examples provided in this thread turned out to indicate all three things in one go. After that all that was needed was to make some changes.

144 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Devil-insanity 2606121.280, answering 2606121.273
21-02-2005, at 20:10
the evidence haves been given a million times in treads in the past. so please don’t come whit that.

The "evidence" I've seen previously have invariably shown that there is NO problem, because, like the examples I was first given in this thread, they were NOT clones. Then we finally got some real clones.

I am sure that there have been some proper evidence among the "million times" alleged clones have been posted, but unfortunately, we do not have time to read a million postings, let alone read them, dive into the database and then compare every single one of them.

145 From: HT-Hasse
To: Iedereen 2606121.425, answering 2606121.424
22-02-2005, at 16:17
I think it is time to close this thread since the problem is solved but lots of users still read only the first posts and reply to them.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

146 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen (2636166.29), answering 2636166.1
25-02-2005, at 20:28
Everyone,

Let me state here and now, once and for all:

* I have not stated, and I will not state, whether the game engine is linear or not.

* In a matter such as this one, there are very few members even of the HT-team who knows for sure exactly how it works. Remember that not every word spoken by a person with HT-prefix should automatically be considered an official statement representing the whole HT-team. (Although, you may consider this particular posting an official statement from the only one who knows for sure about this particular question :).

* The Match Engine works exactly as it is intended in this respect (whether that be linear or non-linear). This also implies that there is no reason to suggest fixes for this or that, because we are well aware of the implications of how it works, and have designed the game engine as a whole based on that design.

* I will (probably) not answer any follow-up questions in this or other threads about this matter, beyond what I state above.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

147 HT-Hasse:
In your opinion, about how many hidden skills are there for a player?

None. And we have stated that very clearly numerous times
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

148 From: HT-Tjecken
To: GM-Tommy_la 2927458.42, answering 2927458.26
15-04-2005, at 13:09
Correct.

There were no double training yesterday at all. But there was a bug that affected all teams training set pieces (but only those teams). We'll deal with this bug.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

149 From: HT-Tjecken
To: redrobert (2942648.123), answering 2942648.109
19-04-2005, at 10:19
the possession that is mentioned is from the 45th/90th minute. that's what ht-bjorn is saying and everything i observed so far proves this right.

That's correct.

150 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Ratsia 2942648.125, answering 2942648.124
19-04-2005, at 11:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And it's looking more and more like it is too non-linear, so that even a small difference in possession averages a huge difference in how the chances are allocated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example, the difference in that particular match was by no means small. Elkabong's opponent had roughly 35% higher midfield rating. This is roughly the same as difference between average div III and div I teams in relatively established countries (difference measured by Hatstats, which is linear function of ratings and thus comparable to studying the difference of individual ratings). Yet, like you said, Elkabong was a favourite in that match, even though his midfield was in a sense two division levels below the opponent's midfield and the only part of the ratings that was better for him was attack.

So, the question is "what is a small difference". I would never call 30-50% difference small, regardless of the rating in question. Getting 30-50% advantage on some area requires significant investments. Assuming identical formations (and other variables) this means roughly 30-50% better players. For example, "excellents instead of passables" or "supernaturals instead of outstandings". IMO those are huge differences.

A 10% difference indeed is quite small, and in case of midfield it will give 52% possession and thus probably on average slightly less than 6 chances for the dominating team. This will not be a decisive thing in the match. Even 20% difference, which is not that small anymore, will only give 55% possession and probably 6-7 chances. It's still relatively easy to counter that by dominating other ratings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fix it up so that it is linear or at least close to it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It could be tweaked a bit, but a linear system would be quite catastrophical. If the scoring probabilities would be linear as well, there really wouldn't be anything for us to play, because it would not matter how you position your players (strong side versus weak or vice versa and so on). Linearizing midfield alone would not cause exactly the same effect, but it would make midfield have almost no value at all if scoring formula remained the same as it is now.

Very nice post in a very nice thread I must say. I love to read those threads like this where users really try to discover new stuff instead of just stating the same old myths again.
All users participating and reading this thread will/can actually even learn a lot from it (apparently even including elkabong this time :)).

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

151 HT-Tjecken (verschillende posts)
At that time Bob wasn't as famous as he is today, you can say his star was about to rise but very few ppl was aware of him being such a beloved team member. Not even the HT-team (this was before I was a member of the team) was aware of it (even it they had started to hear some rumours about his stardom).
However, I was still playing in the Swedish cup when Hasse asked me if Bob maybe could brighten up his team a little bit, until I was out of the cup. So, Hasse kind of lent him for a short while.
Short Bob-history:

Bob was "born" at a Hattrick party. He's a keeper, but in fact better winger. So one can say he was cult from the day of his birth. I and some other made up stories around Bob, he was the best player, every girl's dream and so on... Around nine months later the HT-team (before I was a member of the team) made him "beloved", and when the faces were introduced Bob got a unique face. did Bob have solid leadership when they made him beloved? or is that a mith?

Myth.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

152 From: HT-Tjecken
To: svinefar (2942625.136), answering 2942625.125
22-04-2005, at 10:01
The HT’s have told us: We aim at a steady inflation

Yes, we do (and are). But just as one_to7 says, we generally mean a steady inflation to the amount of money in the game (per team), not on player prices.

birne74 and Ratsia have also said something really important in this thread; why we can't measure whether it's an inflation by just comparing prices for magnificent midfielders (for example).

Anyways, some figures (pure fresh ones) will maybe shed a little more light on this current situation:
The underlying economy flushes. We have an inflation in the game (see definition above) and have had so for the last two-three seasons. Last season there was an inflation around 6,5% even though many users built a new arena at the end of the season, and this season we're heading towards an even bigger inflation. It might in fact be time to cool things down a little bit soon (as always, if we will do anything with the economy affecting teams directly, we will announce it on MyHT well in advance).

Further more, the sponsors are giving around 4% more money to the teams this season (compared to last season) and the wages have increased by around 12%. But if we talk pure money, what teams have lost in increased wages they have (almost) taken back in more sponsor money.
In addition to that we have the spectator income which has increased by around 20%, and if we talk pure money close to 3x wages increase.

Enough said about the underlying economy, now some words about the transfer market. The transfer market is meant to be a free open market (well, as free and as open as it can get in Hattrick), where supply and demand set price. We (HT) will try (and have always tried) to affect the transfer market as little as possible. Prices have been falling for a while (not much, or even not at all, this last season), true - but as the underlying economy flushes you'll have to seek the answer elsewhere than there. Some parts of the answer may come from game design decisions, some parts of the answer may come from the capability to adopt to the game and some parts of the answer are maybe hidden in the dark.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

153 HT-Bjorn
There’s no limit to how many injuries you can get

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

154 HT-unknown
Ex-coaches still lose leadership

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[[Category:HT's on Global]]
{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Taste1
| msgid = 4245352.2
| prevmsgid = 4245352.1
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:42
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''Also, the contribution of winger skill for all positions (wing backs and midfielders, especially wingers) except those with "Towards middle" behaviour, has been boosted somewhat. After some discussion on the Dutch questions forum, I'd like to ask your opinion on this matter. What is the contribution of IM's to wing attack at this moment? And will it be important in the future? Or does this only start to get interesting when you play an inner mid towards wing? If it were to important, then finding good trainees for pm trainers will be hell - they need pm, passing, defending, wing and preferrably already some stamina!!''

Inner mids playing Toward Wing have always had a winger skill contribution. That contribution has now been increased.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Mod-Wizard
| msgid = 4245352.8
| prevmsgid = 4245352.3
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:53
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''so this statemend concerns only MTW and not normal, defensive or offensive M, right?''

Since only MTW has a wing contribution to boost, only that is affected yes. We certainly have not added winger skill contribution to positions that never had had any winger skill contribution.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = AmonRaZZ
| msgid = 4245352.13
| prevmsgid = 4245352.11
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 13:01
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''Except for forwards, I presume.''

Exactly. :)
}}
----
{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = [[Users:Ratsia|Ratsia]]
| msgid = 4244356.24
| prevmsgid = 4244356.10
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:24
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
CLARIFICATION:

FTW contributes less to center attacks than normal forwards. The contribution from FTW to center attacks is, however, somewhat bigger than it is to the opposite side.

FTW winger skill only contributes to attack on his own wing.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = [[Users:Ratsia|Ratsia]]
| msgid = 4244356.29
| prevmsgid = 4244356.19
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:31
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''In that case the announcement should definitely be fixed.''

There will be another announcement showrtly that clarifies this issue. I could have sworn I wrote something about the reduction to center attack, but obviously I didn't. I will however wait a couple of hours or so until I have made sure that aren't other things that also need to be clarified before posting the new message.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Mr_Booze
| msgid = 4244356.31
| prevmsgid = 4244356.22
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:33
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''I have allways seen it as a little unfair that you could get a reasonable wing-attack only by having two forwards with very high "Scoring".''

Yes, this is one of the issues that is being addressed with this change.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = maorn
| msgid = 4244356.33
| prevmsgid = 4244356.25
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:35
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
What I meant is:

If you have a Forward Towards wing going towards your right wing, then his contribution to center attacks is smaller than his contribution to right wing attacks, but his contribution to center attacks is bigger than his contribution to left wing attacks.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = MOD-Piwiks
| msgid = 4244356.37
| prevmsgid = 4244356.34
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:37
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
Further information on the new training mentioned in the 2005-09-12 posting one will be announced when the time is right for so doing. ;)
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Taste1
| msgid = 4244356.39
| prevmsgid = 4244356.36
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:39
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''Will you clarify further the influence on winging skills for Inner mids? Or do we have to guess? ;)''

What do you need to have clarified?

Inner mids only use winger skill (and quite little at that) when they are played Towards Wing.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = IrRichman
| msgid = 4244356.45
| prevmsgid = 4244356.42
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 12:51
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''Does the central attack rating stay the same for normal forwards?''

Yes.

You certainly have a valid point that the net effect of these changes will be slightly less goals overall as attacks are generally reduced, give the current composition of teams and players. There will be a period of adjustment before goal rates are back to normal.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = IrRichman
| msgid = 4244356.59
| prevmsgid = 4244356.51
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 13:17
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''I still think it's an interesting tactic, but I really would not be happy if all forwards would drop in value...''

If anything, more likely the opposite: If people come to think that their team's attack power is too weak they will buy better forwards, thus making prices rise.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = IrRichman
| msgid = 4244356.62
| prevmsgid = 4244356.60
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 13:20
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
Winger skill ONLY contributes to players clearly ordered to move on the wings.

Wing-backs, Inner backs playing toward wing, wingers, IM playing towards wing and Forwards playing toward wing are the ones who can use their wing skill. I think this makes a lot of sense if you think about it. :)
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = IrRichman
| msgid = 4244356.69
| prevmsgid = 4244356.65
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 13:34
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''It does, but that makes my argument for increased central attack contibution even stronger!

Even with a nice winger subskill, a normal forward will be less effective as a centre forward, if you look at the total attack ratings thus: you could only use that winger skill if you reduce CA a lot''

As I said - you do have a point. :)

This is not how we have done it this time, but since your point is valid, it will be assimilated into the vast heap of valid points that affects future decisions. :)
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Jilkocfc
| msgid = 4244356.81
| prevmsgid = 4244356.71
| datetime = 22-10-2005, at 14:57
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''A FTW uses his winger skill to increase wing attack, but not his scoring skill.''

No, not correct.

FTW uses a lot of winger skill AND a lot of scorer skill on attacks on his flank.

For attacks in the middle and on the opposite wing, he just uses scorer skill (and less of it than he does on his own wing).
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = jsival
| msgid = 4244356.126
| prevmsgid = 4244356.123
| datetime = 23-10-2005, at 11:47
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''I think that is bullshit. An extra innermid plays just like a normal innermid (of course with a penalty) and not more like a defending innermid.''

Correct.

If this was not the case, we would have written so in the rules.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = Morelos
| msgid = 4244356.127
| prevmsgid = 4244356.125
| datetime = 23-10-2005, at 11:48
| keywords = (forward towards wing)
| text =
''he plays like a defensive im, what is in my opinion also logical and correct.''

No he does not, the rules do not say so, and it would not be logical. The theory above is just mythology based on nothing in the rules or that we have said.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Hasse
| to = gonzalviyo
| msgid = 4818792.15
| prevmsgid = 4818792.1
| datetime = 7-1-2006 at 00:46
| keywords = (attendance), (derby)
| text =
''Hi, I've got one doubt I can't remember, did derbies in the past report more people to the stadium than matches between teams of two different regions? Thanks ;)''

No. That has never been the case.
}}

HTs on Global/Spectators

2006-01-06T23:50:51Z

Catalyst2950: Added quote about attendance in derbies

[[Category:HT's on Global|Crowd_formula]]

Some people were complaining about low attendences at their matches and suggested the crowd formula was changed.

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = unknown
| msgid = 1484496.132
| prevmsgid = 1484496.1
| datetime = 11-7-2004 at 20.36
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
A few clarifications:
-We have not changed the crowd formula. I repeat: Not changed. It is the exact same formula as it has been for as long as I can remember. Given a certain level of supporter mood before the match, it will be the same results as last seasons (assuming all other circumstances identical).

-I am convinced that there is no bug in the crowd formula. Bugs don't appear out of thin air - someone must have changed something for them to appear, and we have not changed anything.

-We did change, in HT 6.6, the formula for how fans are affected after the match by certain results. The new formula gives on average the same level of effect as previously - it is NOT generally more harsh. It is tilted to reward small wins and punish small losses, compared to the old formula which was more benign to small losses if there were loads of goals, and more harsh against small wins if there were few goals. These changes are described in the HT 6.6 document.

-The crowd size (for league matches) is a function of:

*What match round (the later in the season, the more important matches, according to the minds of the inhabitants of the HT universe).
*The difference of league position between the teams (importance)
*The league position of the home team
*The size of the fanclubs
*The supporter moods
*The weather
}}

Still some people were convinced something had changed.
{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = dnbrt
| msgid = 1484496.153
| prevmsgid = 1484496.142
| datetime = 11-7-2004 at 21.01
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
''why is this the first time this happens?''

It isn't. It's just the first time enough people have read the HT 6.6 document, remembered only 10% of it ("it was something about them changing things related to supporter mood"), seeing a low crowd size and jumping to conclusions in the conference.

''there still is the matter of users who have just upgraded, and now found out that there is much less chance that they will get their stadium filled.''

There isn't less chance. There have been no general worsening of spectator outcome. The one change, to the supporter mood, is neither worse nor better than the old one.

''We weren't warned on advance about this.''

But there isn't any "this"! :)
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = worcaholic
| msgid = 1484496.157
| prevmsgid = 1484496.144
| datetime = 11-7-2004 at 21.03
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
''thx for the infos, but I'm missing one factor: randomness. or isn't there any kind of random within this calculation?''

Somewhat surprisingly: No, random is not part of these formulas (except indirectly that weather is a function of random).
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = cube_
| msgid = 1484496.159
| prevmsgid = 1484496.149
| datetime = 11-7-2004 at 21.06
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
It's pretty hilarious as in every country there are so much threads about it TODAY and there wasn't week, two weeks or couple of weeks ago !

More people in the Middle Ages were convinced that the Earth was flat than there is today. That doesn't mean there was any actual unflattening of the physical Earth by the time of Copernicus.
}}

This guy wondered why he got so low attendence after a 7-0 loss.
{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Hasse
| to = bannock
| msgid = 1484496.185
| prevmsgid = 1484496.178
| datetime = 11-7-2004 at 21.56
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
First of all you have to realize that 7-0 is not only a big loss - it is a disaster.
And the system has open ends - there is not maximun or minimum output of any of the
parameters. If one of them gives a very extreme input it is bound to have a big
influence on the output.
Secondly, unlike IRL there are no "my" and "his" in this context. The parameters do
not calculate two separate crowd numbers independently which are added together.
They calculate one single crowd.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Bjorn
| to = MountainHawk
| msgid = 1484496.208
| prevmsgid = 1484496.207
| datetime = 12-7-2004 at 00:01
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
''Yeah! You clearly forgot the square root! Everyone knows the HT's love square roots!!''

LOL
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Hasse
| to = Bayernstark
| msgid = 1484496.250
| prevmsgid = 1484496.244
| datetime = 12-7-2004 at 13:09
| keywords = crowd formula, crowd size
| text =
''Don’t you think it might be wise to consider a limit''

We don't like limits in any parameters.
}}

{{forum_message|
| from = HT-Hasse
| to = gonzalviyo
| msgid = 4818792.15
| prevmsgid = 4818792.1
| datetime = 7-1-2006 at 00:46
| keywords = (attendance), (derby)
| text =
''Hi, I've got one doubt I can't remember, did derbies in the past report more people to the stadium than matches between teams of two different regions? Thanks ;)''

No. That has never been the case.
}}

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2006-01-06T18:39:55Z

Catalyst2950:

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2006-01-06T15:44:52Z

Catalyst2950:

Total Skill Index

2005-12-29T21:06:29Z

Catalyst2950: Removed what Just_Y wrote (THHGTTG stuff - it's nonsense)

The '''Total Skill Index''' (or '''TSI''') is an official measure of a [[player]]'s abilities. The formula used for the calculation is unknown, but several somewhat successful attempts have been made in approximating the true function. It is rumoured that [[HT-Bjorn]] proclaimed he'll change the TSI calculation formula as soon as someone figures it out.{{ref|ref1}}

Obviously, the higher TSI, the better. But it isn't very accurate because an average all around player (inadequate in a few positions) would have a higher TSI than specialized players (excellent in only one). It increases with training and it can increase and decrease with [[form]]. Sometimes your TSI will drop even though your form does not. (That is a background form change for example when you go from a high passable to a low passable form level. It doesn't show up as a form change but you dropped a sublevel)

TSI for goalies is a different matter. The highest TSI for a goalie the better. Since a goalie only specializes in one skill it can be measured and you can see how close your goalie is to the next level by entering your TSI into http://www.hottrick.org/hattrick_keeper_tool.php. Also keepers have higher TSI than their specialized equavalents.

A common theory is that both form and stamina have a multiplying effect on the TSI, whereas the other skills (for keepers, goaltending only) contribute as a sum of exponential functions.

The [[Set Pieces]] [[Skills | skill]] doesn't affect the TSI.

=== TSI approximation ===

For Goalkeepers an approximated formula for TSI calculation is:
TSI = ((0,025 * FORM + 0,1) * ( 10*(SKILL-1) ) ^ (3.4))/1000
With Form and Skill ranked from 1 (disastrous)

Talk:General training

2005-12-13T22:15:06Z

Catalyst2950:

From what I know, General training doesn't improve foreground form at all. What it does is speed up the transition to background form if it's higher than foreground form, and slows down the transition if it's lower. That is, if a player is in excellent form, and his BG form is weak, he'll drop in form slower than usual. If his FG form is weak, and BG form is excellent, he'll rise faster. If this wasn't the case, then we'd be seeing hordes of newbie clubs who "train" General and field inadequate players in solid/excellent form throughout the season, but we don't. Maybe I should include this in a "based on opinion" template... --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 22:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Helper application

2005-12-13T21:55:49Z

Catalyst2950: Removed all the "freeware" spam, added notification about apps being free unless stated otherwise

= [[CHPP]] Approved Applications =

These applications are designed to help manage some aspects of your team, from choosing your match lineup to helping you with your training plans. Helper applications can be especially handy when you are new to Hattrick, though even the best managers can find a use for them, such as getting long term statistics about your team.

More pages about helper applications can be found [[:Category:Helper Applications|here]].

'''All applications are free''' (as in beer), '''unless stated otherwise''' (that includes Open Source / free as in speech applications).

{{stub}}

==Standalone applications==
*[http://www.fabonehattrick.com/ FaboneHattrick]
*[http://www.hattrickitalia.org/gham/ GHAM - GPL Hattrick Manager] Multiplatform, Open Source, based on Java
*[http://www.lokesoftware.dk/ham/ HAM - Hattrick Assistant Manager] Shareware/Trial
*[http://www.hattrickbuddy.de/ Hattrick Buddy] Shareware/Trial
*[http://www.h-c-p.net/ HCP - Hattrick Coach Professional]
*[http://www.hattrickcontrol.f2o.org/ HC - Hattrick Control]
*[http://www.hattrickforever.com/ HTF - Hattrick Forever]
*[[Hattrick Manager]], Shareware/Trial, [http://www.hattrickmanager.org/ Web Site]
*[http://www.hattrickok.tk/ Hattrick OK]
*[[Hattrick Organizer|HO - Hattrick Organizer]] Multiplatform, based on Java, [http://www.hattrickorganizer.de/ Web Site]
*[http://www.htratings.com/ HT Ratings]
*[http://www.httools.org/ HT Tools]
*[http://www.macattrick.com/ Macattrick] Mac OS X, Open Source

==Browser plugins==
*[http://foxtrick.px.cz/ Foxtrick] Firefox and Mozilla extension for Hattrick
*[http://www.psicotsi.com/ PsicoTSI] Firefox and Mozilla extension for determining skill decimals
*[http://www.hattrick.cl/htratings/index_en.html HTRatings Translator] Firefox and Mozilla extension for viewing old and new match ratings combined
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-ray/index.asp?starter=download FoXRay] Firefox and Mozilla extension for Hattrick - Freeware/Trial (recurrent)
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-ray/index.asp?starter=download hattriX-Ray] Internet Explorer Right-Click-Menu Extension - Freeware/Trial (recurrent)
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/htpe/ HTPE] Internet Explorer Right-Click-Menu Extension
*[http://www.xplosivant.be/ht/index.htm Blue Hattrick Redesign] CSS file for Opera, Firefox and other modern browsers

==Web Sites==

===Web Sites - Guides and News Magazines===
*[http://www.barthon.com Analysis of Training Value] A training guide
*[http://www.htsuomi.net HT-Suomi ] Finnish Only
*[http://www.IntroHT.com IntroHT - The newbie's guide]
*[http://ht-faq.ione.se HT-FAQ] HT-FAQ is a databased driven site consisting of Q&A:s collected by admins. Guests can also interact by asking question and getting them answered by a panel of "experts".
*[http://www.ione.se Ione.se] Here you'll find articles, interviews, help and columns connected to the game. Whether you're a newbie or an experienced user this is the place to be!
*[http://www.ht-star.de HT-Star] German newspaper
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-files/ hattriX-files]
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/rss/ HT Newsfeeds]
*[http://www.htskrotownik.org/ HT-SKRÓTOWNIK] Polish Guide

===Web Sites - Statistics ===
*[http://www.alltidhattrick.org AlltidHattrick]
*[http://www.hatstats.info HatStats ]
*[http://www.hattristics.org/pub/index.php hattristics]
*[http://www.jalonator.net jalonator]
*[http://student.science.uva.nl/~lhoek/maptrick.php? Maptrick]
*[http://www.lokesoftware.dk/ham/hamtpestats.cfm? HAM TPE stats]
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/htpe/ HTPE]
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/halloffame/ hattrick Hall Of Fame]
*[http://www.ht-league.com ht-league]
*[http://www.ht-deutschland.de/ HT-Deutschland.de] Stats and rankings for all german leagues and teams

===Web Sites - Tools ===
*[http://www.friendlymanager.httools.org HTTools Friendly Manger ]
*[http://www.fcclogo.cretze.org FCC Logo ] For members of the FCC federation only
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-ray/ X-Ray] Freeware/Trial (recurrent)
*[http://www.hottrick.org/hattrick_keeper_tool.php hottrick keeper tool]
*[http://www.cpoet.net/simarena.php SimArena (Arena calculator)]
*[http://www.cpoet.net/simcheeese.php SimCheeese (online teamphoto tool)]
*[http://powersystems.be/sigcreator/ Sig and Flagcreator]
*[http://www.doxdev.com HT-DOX - Look at your Bookmarks]
*[http://student.science.uva.nl/~lhoek/coolness.php League Coolness Ranking]
*[http://www.asole.org/hat_sublevel_tool.php Hattrick Transfer-List Tool]
*[http://mikehell.kicks-ass.net/ht-dog ht-dog - Disarmer of Giants]
*[http://www.student.ru.nl/rvanaarle/injury.php Advanced Injury Calculator]
*[http://sdsf.de/time-to-heal/ Injury Calculator]
*[http://www.manager.brygge.dk/Hattrick/experience.htm experience]
*[http://www.databased.at/hattrick/cupmanager/ hattriX-Cupmanager] For Hattrick Supporters only
*[http://www.rembrandt.net/hattrick/ Promotion/Demotion]
*[http://www.reot.nl/hattrick/hteconomen.htm Economy]
*[http://www.cupmanager.org Cup Manager]
*[http://www.tomattrick.org/ tomattrick] Requires membership
*[http://perpetka.neostrada.pl/hattrick/leczenie.htm leczenzie healing tables]
*[http://www.divxmania.it/hattrick/ Hattrick Logo Counter]
*[http://www.hattrickhq.org/ Hattrick Head-Quarters]
*[http://www.ht-arena.com/ HT-Arena] For Hattrick Supporters only
*[http://www.freeweb.hu/dinam0/calculator.php?lang=1 Midfield Rating Calculator]

==Match Viewers==
*[http://www.criolloviewer.com.ar Criollo Viewer] Not available at the moment
*[http://www.hattricktoday.org/Demo/ Hattrick Today (2D MatchViewer)] Demo version, will require payment
*[http://www.htplus.org htplus]
*[http://home.hetnet.nl/~janhoit/ Match Online]

{{stub}}

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:54:48Z

Catalyst2950: Revert

This contest was kicked of to get [[Main_Page|this great project]] a new logo.

For this a call for suggestions was posted in several conferences within Hattrick as well as external forums.

A nice idea is to ''hattrickify'' the logo of Wikipedia, but any other idea is welcome.
The logo should ideally visualize the great knowledge which is stored in hattrick wiki.

Suggestions by different artists will be posted here along with their Hattrick user name and in the conference of the [[Hattrick Wiki Federation]] (wiki) (allianceid: 33894).

{| border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"
|- valign="top"
|[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_sirhawkeye.jpg|120px|thumb|center|Artist: SirHawkeye, words and writing-design will be changed if logo is selected, L4U forum]]
|[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_brausebirne.gif|120px|thumb|center|Artist: Brausebirne, L4U forum]]
|[[Image:hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_joager.gif|120px|thumb|center|Artist: Joager, received by ht-mail]]
|-
|[[Image:Hattrick_Wiki_Small.jpg|130px|thumb|center|Artist: [[Rutger1992]], Published on Wiki]]
|[[Image:Hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_MOD-RoLitoral.jpg|120px|thumb|center|Artist: MOD-RoLitoral, posted in global]]
|[[Image:Hattrickwikilogo_suggestion1_ Superow.jpg|120px|thumb|center|Artist: Superow, posted in Hattrick Wiki Federation conference]]
|}

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:29:58Z

Catalyst2950: Revert

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:29:23Z

Catalyst2950:

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:22:05Z

Catalyst2950:

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:19:48Z

Catalyst2950: Revert again. I've asked GM-Lau to step to the Talk page.

User talk:-Lau-

2005-12-13T20:18:49Z

Catalyst2950:

What is a Lau?

- It's short for my real name. Also lau (or lauw) seems to be slang for something good (in Dutch). [[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 10:25, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[[User:Pieet|GM-Pieet]] 13:05, 25 November 2005 (UTC): You seem to be really smart!

== User talk: Pieet ==

This space has been reserved for discussions regarding [[User:Pieet|GM-Pieet]]

[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 13:10, 25 November 2005 (UTC): He is a Laugh!

Ik ben eens aan het uitvogelen hoe het werkt :-D

== Eens testen ==

Eens kijken of het lukt :-)

˜˜˜˜Dit is mijn handtekening

hmm, gekke wiki, je moet kennelijk echt de tilde op je toetsenbord hebben, naast de 1. ~~ <-- die dus, maar dan 4 keer. [[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]]

Djens: ik had totaal geen idee hoe het moest... vandaar dat het mij niet lukte ;)

ook de volgende pagina's zouden eigenlijk nog ergens verstopt moeten worden.. misschien heb jij een idee:

- [[Vulj-Glačo]]
- [[Lidwinia]]
- [[Xročetoxtos]]

die laatste had ik al de category:regions gegeven, maar heb het gevoel dat dat niet helemaal correct is...

== Categories. ==

hmm, now i'm wondering where to put the categories... on [[GM-Lau]] or on [[User:GM-Lau]] the first looks better in the category page, but the second looks better on the userpage. --[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 00:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

== Help ==

Ik snap er echt helemaal niets van... Alles loopt in elkaar over, ik krijg overal waar ik het niet wil "user" ervoor en waar ik het wel wil niet :-S...

mathie

[[User:Mathie|Mathie]] 13:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)nieuwe handtekeningtest van mathie :-)

== Staff opinion ==

Would you please step to [[Talk:Hattrick_wiki_logo_contest]] and give an official opinion about the RTFW logo?

Talk:Infamous Hattrickers

2005-12-13T20:16:10Z

Catalyst2950:

ehm, the language of the wiki is English, not Dutch. Maybe a good idea to translate this stuff, if you really think these pages have value;-) --[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 20:07, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

You lazy bum :) You could've done that yourself ;) Now I did the job, but I'm not going to translate all pages about the infamous users themselves. --[[User:larsw84|larsw84]]

----

I don't think 99.99% of people ever heard of these guys... Does the page really have a purpose? --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 20:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:14:00Z

Catalyst2950: Revert again

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:12:34Z

Catalyst2950:

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-13T20:10:02Z

Catalyst2950: Revert to remove the RTFW logo

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-12T23:33:19Z

Catalyst2950:

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-12T23:28:19Z

Catalyst2950: Revert back to without the RTFW image

Hrvatska

2005-12-12T23:27:14Z

Catalyst2950: Revert - the currency is the Hattrick currency, not the real one

{{Infobox Country |
| full_local_name = Hrvatska
| name_(english) = Croatia
| image_flag = 125px-Croatia flag large.png
| image_coat = 110px-Croatia coat small.png
| image_map = LocationCroatia.png
| zone = [[Eastern Europe]]
| link_to_map = http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.598666,16.149902&spn=5.221419,9.769043&t=h&hl=en
| continent = [[Europe]]
| season = 12
| number_of_teams = 10920 (4600+ active)
| level_of_series = 6
| number_of_regions = 25
| top_serie_name = [[1.HNL]]
| national_trainer = markich
| u20_coach = Brzi_
| currency = Kuna
| parity = 10kn=1€
| htt_offset =
| footnotes =
}}

==History==

[http://wiki.hattrick.org/Magyarorsz%C3%A1g_-_Hrvatska_Challange Magyarország - Hrvatska Challange on 21 December 2005]

{{stub-country}}

==Trophies==

{{stub-country}}

==Croatian Staff==

* GM-dromanic
* Mod-jj
* MOD-miha
* LA-Antimon

==League champions==

{{stub-country}}

==Cup champions==
* Season 1: '''BlueBA'''
* Season 2: '''Kakanj BOIS'''
* Season 3: '''BlueBA'''
* Season 4: '''Folka United'''
* Season 5: '''Josip Veliki'''
* Season 6: '''Bloodwich-team'''
* Season 7: '''Kalelarga Legends'''
* Season 8: '''Dalmacija u srcu'''
* Season 9: '''Dalmatia Lions'''
* Season 10: '''Dalmacija u srcu'''
* Season 11: '''Dalmacija u srcu'''
* Season 12: '''Zastava'''

{{stub-country}}

==Regions==

* [[Bjelovar]]
* [[Čakovec]]
* [[Crikvenica]]
* [[Dubrovnik]]
* [[Gospić]]
* [[Karlovac]]
* [[Koprivnica]]
* [[Krapina]]
* [[Makarska]]
* [[Našice]]
* [[Opatija]]
* [[Osijek]]
* [[Požega]]
* [[Pula]]
* [[Rijeka]]
* [[Šibenik]]
* [[Sisak]]
* [[Slavonski Brod]]
* [[Split]]
* [[Umag]]
* [[Varaždin]]
* [[Virovitica]]
* [[Vukovar]]
* [[Zadar]]
* [[Zagreb]]

[[category:Countries]]
[[category:Eastern Europe]]

Talk:Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-12T11:22:58Z

Catalyst2950:

Hattrick wiki logo contest

2005-12-12T11:22:45Z

Catalyst2950: Removed RTFW image

Talk:Helper application

2005-12-10T13:54:11Z

Catalyst2950:

Feel free to add whatever helper applications you feel like, just make a note as to wether there freeware, shareware, or a trial based product, and that you add it to the right category

----

'''''NB:''' Please refrain from posting free .tk adresses, and similar websites as they contain popup advertising, that may also contain malware''

== Wiki Pages. ==

There is a perfectly nice [[Foxtrick]] page, as well as pages for most of the other apps. I think they should be included in the page, my question to you is: How? Remove the external links in favour of internal ones? --[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 00:30, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I think replace the external links with the internal links (which should link to the websites). This also justifies the need for the Categories: Helper Applications page. -- [[Wyatt]]

----

We can remove the external links in favour of internal ones, with a description of the program, and an external link. This would add an extra click, but also retain the external link. I think this soloution would better suit then the more information can be found here that we currently have in place on the page, as that seems like a double up

that said, why do we need to double up on descriptions that are allready provided on the external links.

- Orestes

----

How about we remove the "Freeware" spam and add some text saying "all applications are freeware, unless stated otherwise"? --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 13:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

FK Apolonia

2005-12-07T06:48:06Z

Catalyst2950: Fixed category

==Club Info==

*Country: [[Shqiperia]]
*Region: [[Fier]]
*Arena: [[Loni Papuçiu]]
*Current Series: III.4
*Owner: _Madskillz_
*Entered hattrick: 18/02/2005 as Tirana VK, later renamed to its present name.

==Club History==

'''Season 2'''

The menager was given a team in league III.4 in [[Shqiperia]] when the country was on its second season in hattrick. The first season in hattrick proved to be very tough for the young team which was the first to play in the region [[Fier]]. AS the team entered after the 3rdweek had been played it lost two of its first three matches being in a very difficult position after week 6. Anyway at that moment the club gained a certain experience and managed to win 7 of the remainng 8 games loosing only to the first placed [[Elbasani]]. The loss was a very unfortunate one as the team was leading 2-0 up to the moment when its best and most experienced midfielder suffered an injury that let him out for weeks after that. The match was lost 3-2 but the team managed to achieve the second place. At the end of this season the club changed its name to better match the fact that its region was Fier, by taking the name of the local Football team FK Apolonia.

'''Season 3'''

After getting the second place in the previous season the club got some ecenomic rewards that helped it get out of the debt and buy some reinforcements for the new season. The hopes were high that season as the team looked the strongest in the league and were hoping to make a decent run in the Albanian CUP.
Being very superior toward most of the other teams in its league the team took advantage by PIC-ing league matches and using better TS against stronger opponents in Cup matches. This was especially seen in the match against [[Dardanija]], a Superliga team for the 4th round of the cup. After extra times the team managed to win 4-3, achieving the best result in its short history. After the exhausting match against [[Dardanija]] the team took a draw in the league against Torkka FC 3-3. The quarter finals of the cup proved to be to tough and [[Jakova FC]], later winner of the cup that season, managed to win easily 5-2. It was an expected loss an the menager used PIC and Press in order not to suffer a heavier loss. Despite the loss in the quarter finals the achievements in the cup were considered satisfactory.
In week 10 of the season Apolonia was facing second place Torkka FC(later renamed to [[Mabetex]]). Apolonia had a superior team but Torkka managed to win 4-3 thanks to e very superior winger they had in their team. With no decent wingback to stop him Apolonia went to the second place and there it remained since Torkka did not do any mistakes up to the end of the season. Even though the best team in the league that season Apolonia had to stay in III.4

'''Season 4'''

After the fatal mistakes done by the manager in the 3rd season the team was again in III.4. Apolonia looked still the strongest in the league but surprisingly another team which up to that time was considered mediocre showed to be very strong that season. Surprisingly, Sk Kastrioti had bought some great players by using some mysterious ways to find moeny and was the second strongest contender for the league title.
FK Aplonia wanted to repeat the great appearance of the previous season in the cup so the menager decided to field the first team in cup matches and the second team in league matches. This strategy gave to the team another great win against a Superliga team and also first season winnner of the Cup [[KF Liria Prizren]]. The 5-3 win is considered one of the best matches ever and the team was looking forward to meeting [[FC Atletika]] in the next round. The fact that the club considered the cup more important then the league matches brought the most disastrous loss in teh club history in the 3rd week season 4 match against Sk Kastrioti, 6-2. Fielding not the primary team showed catastrophic and the team had to follow from the early stages. Also in the cup later that week [[FC Atletika]] won 6-2 and with the team confidence being the lowest ever the team had to be very careful in the future.
After week 7 when Sk Kastrioti was heading with three points the team was removed and a new user got its place, FC PRRENJAS_BOYS. Aplonia got full advantage of the fact and defeated FC PRRENJAS_BOYS on week 12 7-1 and is at the moment leading the table with 6 points with just two games to go.

==Training==

FK Apolonia trains scoring based on the ideas that attacking is the best defence, and A match with no goals is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery boring.

==Players==

Throughout it short history the team has had many great players which have contributed a lot for the club. At the moment these are the players that play for the club:

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1" width="300">
<tr align="center">
<td align="center">'''Player Name'''</td>
<td width="50" align="center">'''Age'''</td>
<td width="50" align="center">'''Nationality'''</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Hauk Vestli</td>
<td align="center">19</td>
<td align="center">Norway</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Lucien Fache</td>
<td align="center">26</td>
<td align="center">Belgium</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Joaquin Desantes</td>
<td align="center">20</td>
<td align="center">Spain</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Blake Alston</td>
<td align="center">26</td>
<td align="center">England</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Diego Poveda</td>
<td align="center">21</td>
<td align="center">Chile</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Seth Prouteau</td>
<td align="center">21</td>
<td align="center">Oceania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Thanush Ferra</td>
<td align="center">20</td>
<td align="center">Albania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Luis Lopez</td>
<td align="center">18</td>
<td align="center">Uruguay</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">'''[[Jusuf Qosja]]'''</td>
<td align="center">18</td>
<td align="center">Albania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Holger Tergau</td>
<td align="center">23</td>
<td align="center">Netherlands</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Levik Ramabaja</td>
<td align="center">22</td>
<td align="center">Albania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Elias Popoca</td>
<td align="center">28</td>
<td align="center">Mexico</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Kay Funke</td>
<td align="center">28</td>
<td align="center">Germany</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Bruno Aguilar</td>
<td align="center">22</td>
<td align="center">Portugal</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Artin Vogli</td>
<td align="center">19</td>
<td align="center">Albania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Randar Helemae</td>
<td align="center">28</td>
<td align="center">Estonia</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Klaus Skau</td>
<td align="center">28</td>
<td align="center">Denmark</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Alain Karl</td>
<td align="center">31</td>
<td align="center">Belgium</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Henri Hartzell</td>
<td align="center">17</td>
<td align="center">Finland</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">luljon Prenkpalaj</td>
<td align="center">21</td>
<td align="center">Albania</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Juhani Sumaila</td>
<td align="center">30</td>
<td align="center">Finland</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Jan Stiglius</td>
<td align="center">27</td>
<td align="center">Sweden</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">Jorn Ulfsson(coach)</td>
<td align="center">60</td>
<td align="center">Sweden</td>
</tr>

</table>

*[[Jusuf Qosja]] is the clubs' best youthpull ever. The club from its very founding had tried to find a young Albanian forward to train. When Jusuf Qosja was pulled it has been a decision to keep the player in the club refusing even the most tempting offers.

==Club Achievements==

<table border="1" width="71%" id="table1">
<tr>
<td width="66" align="center">Season #</td>
<td align="center">League Achievement</td>
<td align="center">Cup Achievement</td>
<td align="center">Other</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="66" align="center">1</td>
<td align="center">N/A</td>
<td align="center">N/A</td>
<td align="center">N/A</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="66" align="center">2</td>
<td align="center">2nd place in III.4</td>
<td align="center">Round 2 of 7</td>
<td align="center">N/A</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="66" align="center">3</td>
<td align="center">2nd place in III.4</td>
<td align="center">Round 5 of 7</td>
<td align="center">N/A</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="66" align="center">4</td>
<td align="center">1st place in III.4</td>
<td align="center">Round 4 of 7</td>
<td align="center">Promoted to II.2</td>
</tr>
</table>

In season 1 the team was ownerless so no achievements recorded.

[[Category:Clubs|FK Apolonia]]

FK Apolonia

2005-12-07T06:45:35Z

Catalyst2950: Added category

Jusuf Qosja

2005-12-07T06:43:59Z

Catalyst2950: Jusuf Qosja moved to User:Madskillz/Jusuf Qosja: Moved to correct namespace

#redirect [[User:Madskillz/Jusuf Qosja]]

User:Madskillz/Jusuf Qosja

2005-12-07T06:43:59Z

Catalyst2950: Jusuf Qosja moved to User:Madskillz/Jusuf Qosja

Jusuf Qosja is an eighteen years old Albanian Forward, possible future superstar, currently playing for its mother club, [[FK Apolonia]].

He is known to be a nasty fellow who is balanced and honest. He plays as a forward and his ability to use his head makes him very dangerous in corner kicks and other events where decent crosses are coming. Jusuf Qosja is the most beloved player by the fans of [[FK Apolonia]] and in some interviews with the local media he has expressed his loyalty to his mother club and said that he will never leave for any club in the world.
Up to now he has scored 10 goals for his club by playing 4 offical matches.

FK Apolonia

2005-12-07T06:42:11Z

Catalyst2950: FK Apolonia moved to User:Madskillz/FK Apolonia

MediaWiki talk:Sidebar

2005-12-06T22:41:43Z

Catalyst2950:

There's a whole lot of "categories" and links here, and some more will probably appear. I'm not sure this is the correct way of displaying them - there's already too much clutter, as a total of 27 links are currently presented in the sidebar. They're not even alphabetically sorted, so usability is at its minimum. I suggest drastically decreasing the number of links, and creating valid lists on the [[Main Page]]. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 16:24, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I fully agree, it's good that the sidebar is locked but at the moment it's no good. Let's present / collect some alternatives here. -- [[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 16:28, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to play in the Sandbox for a while. I think a nice alternative would be to have several floated DIV's in various colours, that group certain link categories. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 16:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Here we go: [[Meta:Sandbox]]. I have created nine nice little floated standards-compliant boxes (generic block elements), which means they happily play along with different screen resolutions and different font sizes. The default size could be decreased a bit to make three of them horizontally fit in 1024x768. However, editing them on a per-box basis doesn't really work. Maybe MediaWiki doesn't like empty lines. --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 17:11, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

: I see you implemented those on the main page: nice! --[[User:GM-Lau|GM-Lau]] 13:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd basically pair up a lot of the links

Rules & My HT (Rules)
Team & Club (either / or, not both)
Players & Skills (Players)
Coach & Training (Training)
Economy
Employees
Fans & Sponsors
Youth
Arena
Transfers
Line Up & Tactics & Rating & Match Report (The Match)
Conferences
--[[User:Dancing rob|Dancing rob]]

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Pinging [[User:Htsysop]]... :) --[[User:Catalyst2950|Catalyst2950]] 22:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC)