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By: HT-Tjecken 
To: Frank-LNC  10664071.30  as reply to 10664071.24
  8.2.2008 at 10:44
The whole new denomination scale of "hopeless", "prodigious", etc has been cancelled now? Does this mean all youth-players have the same training speed?
For once and for all: That scale had nothing to do with training speed.


=== AOW vs. AIM ===
All youth players don't have the same training speed, but the difference (which depend on their character, right now a hidden value) is marginal.


By: HT-Tjecken 
To: dancing_rob  10664071.45  as reply to 10664071.39
  8.2.2008 at 11:08
my best guess is that it referred to the difference between where the player was now (eg poor) and their max potential (eg solid)


31 From: HT-Bjorn
I'm as intrigued as everyone else as to exactly what it meant though!
To: 666kajet 653584.8, answering 653584.1
Close, but no cigar.
2003-11-14 18.42<br>
There have been more factors considered as well. For instance, we'd somewhat rather encourage AOW than AIM because AIM tend to go along with a midfield with wingers playing towards middle, which we think have been used slightly too frqquently (compared to IRL and compared to how we get a broader variation of tactics). AOW on the other hand encourages the use of offensive/normal wingers wich is on the "wanted" list. Differently put, the AOW being slightly (very slightly) more effective in doing its thing than AIM is part of the "lessen the playmaking dominance" package. Not much, but then, the difference you mention between AIM and AOW isn't that much either.<br><br>


It was a combination of current skill level and potential skill level.


32 From: HT-Bjorn
To: dturnip 653584.20, answering 653584.18
2003-11-14 20.42<br>
In a thread before these tactics came out (I think) he mentioned that the chance of an attack coming on the left right or centre was roughly equal.<br>


I have never said that.<br><br>
By: HT-Tjecken 
To: Everyone 10664071.110  as reply to 10664071.103
  8.2.2008 at 14:47
I read on our youthacademy forum that people got trainingmessage with [level] in there instead of the real level. And then I literaqlly mean "[level]" instead of inadequate or apssable or whatever.
Ok, this one is sorted out now.


x
By: flameron 
To: wildkick  10664071.331  as reply to 10664071.330
  10.2.2008 at 07:59
I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more. At least when it comes to Passing, he's simply unable to improve any more.
This is a new one too, but I guess it is about completed player.
Last comment only means his passing is maxed out.


x


x
By: flameron 
To: wildkick  10664071.333  as reply to 10664071.332
  10.2.2008 at 08:03
Ok, I got that on IM, while training PM + PS. Meaning he could still be a PM talent?


=== Leadership / Bob / TS ===
The message is exact on the skill which is maxed out.
If his PM is mentioned he will not respond to playmaking training.


44 From: HT-Tjecken
By: flameron 
To: Sb8heand 2047484.17, answering 2047484.15
To: wildkick  10664071.335  as reply to 10664071.334
16-11-2004, at 12:37<br>
  10.2.2008 at 08:06
Correct, there is in fact one single player with excellent leadership. And he was created the "natural way", so there is a chance for a player to get excellent leadership - even if it's a very, very, very, very, very, very little chance.
I got a similar message when training wing + ps with him (but then it wasnt mentioned which skill he was maxed in). Now I know ps cant be training - but then he could be trained in PM + WG, right?


46 From: HT-Hasse
I refer only to the new comment type in which the exact skill is stated.
To: Tjosan (2047484.122), answering 2047484.117
16-11-2004, at 17:18<br>
Whoever tried to deny Bob was tweaked? None of the persons present at the time had anything to do with that fact though.<br>


Bob was pulled like any other youth but was later tweaked (as an Easter egg) when it comes to his beloved team member thing.<br><br>


47 HT-Hasse<br>
By: flameron 
To: wildkick  10664071.337  as reply to 10664071.336
  10.2.2008 at 09:28


More or less correct but the fact that it used to be my player had no part in it. Neither had I any part in giving him this face.<br>
Ok. What about the old one that doesn't mentioned which skill? Could it be that one of the skills at the then current time could be worth training?


Basically the story was that when the player faces were introduced those in the HT-team who worked with that wanted 2-3 players who were special for some reason, to give them special faces as a sort of easter-egg. This happened a while after the introduction of the faces. With Wozniak being the first non-Swedish superstar in the game he was an obvious choice. Especially since he also played in the very first World Cup final.<br>
Yes.
It meant that the total skills left to train are quite low. This message is removed due to better info in the new messages.


The other players were Bob Sunesson and Marc O'Farrel. I don't know the story about O'Farrel.<br><br>


x
By: flameron 
To: wildkick  10664071.339  as reply to 10664071.338
  10.2.2008 at 09:33
Here are the messages:


=== secondary skills ===
NEW (training PM/PS):
Match I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more. At least when it comes to Passing, he's simply unable to improve any more.


49 HT-Hasse <br>
(it staat voor secundaries)<br>


I don't know the current parameters of the match engine (mainly because I do not want to) but in my personal experience it has a lot more impact even today than what people generally think.<br>
PREVIOUS (at that time, trained WG/PS):
Match In my opinion, Lars Langeland is not going to reach his potential as a footballer unless he gets some Playmaking training.


When I start restructuring my team (which will happen pretty soon) I will build a team which is quite different from the one I have today.<br><br>


x


=== league system ===
The old message you put here is still valid. I meant the "can not improve" unrelated to skill message.


55 HT-Tjecken
over het uitbreiden van het aantal divisies in (2035249.23):


I will not go in to details, but there are some really good reasons why we can't change the series system without doing a total redesign. A total redesign is not something we plan to do as it will be very time-consuming. Very. Or in other words so very time-consuming that it's in fact impossible.
By: flameron 
To: wildkick  10664071.341  as reply to 10664071.340
  10.2.2008 at 09:40
Ok. You really think he can still be a good prospect when the coach says: " I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more"?


=== Rent a player ===
I know passing training will not do any good, ref. also your comment above. But if that sentence does not mean what it says, he might be able to improve in wing or pm?


56 By: HT-Hasse
Regarding the old message, I thought that that meant that ONE of the skills he was training at that time, didnt do him any good. As he was training WG + PS, that might just be the passing part? Or, is further wing training out of the question as well?
To: Helker (2184210.33) as reply to 2184210.1
14-12-2004 at 18:03
Over het verhuren van spelers


Suggestions with a lot of thought behind is great! However, when it comes to this specific case the basic idea is about as old as Hattrick itself. There are a number of reasons why this is extremely unlikely to ever be realised. First of all it opens up for abuse in several ways.
Maybe those messages means he is not going to improve much in ANY skill?


The biggest reasons though are the ones below:
(a bit messy post, but hope you get my point)


* It would seriously hurt the market. It would make it a lot more difficult to sell certain types of players.
I gave you all the info you need.


* It would benefit the extremely rich clubs, who can afford buying lots of players and then rent them to others and get them trained. After that they can recall them and sell them with an enormous profit.


* It would be a disaster for not so rich clubs. They can not afford to buy a lot of players and rent them to others. Furthermore these are the clubs who have average players for sale. Those players would become virtually impossible to sell. Those teams would be left behind for good.


57 By: HT-Hasse
By: flameron 
To: Allanamin 2184210.36 as reply to 2184210.34
To: Kniff  10664071.457  as reply to 10664071.455
14-12-2004 at 18:24
  13.2.2008 at 09:31
Who would rent his players to someone if they did not get trained? I would certainly not do it. Every week the player gets older and is not trained properly he loses value.
I really like the new reports:


It would also still be devastating to the market. Instead of buying players lots of users would rent players.
"Também treinámos Criatividade esta semana. Ao observar o João Luz, parece-me que ele está no nível desastroso nesta característica."


=== friendly cups ===
In english says something like my GK is disastrous PM at this time...


58 By: HT-Hasse
Very usefull information!!
To: ricouryves 2190245.5 as reply to 2190245.1
15-12-2004 at 20:22
Het gaat hier over het ondersteunen van friendly cups in hattrick.


Hattrick used to have a system similar to that but it did not work since a lot of organizers did not take the full responsibility to manage their cups properly. Starting cups was obviously more fun than actually taking care of them. It is highly unlikely to come back in any form.


59 By: HT-Hasse
yes my keeper got a scoring skill info.
To: MonsieurBon 2190245.9 as reply to 2190245.6
15-12-2004 at 20:50
Because it creates more trouble than it adds to the game.


That people do not play friendlies or do not use all supporter features does not hut anyone else than themselves. When someone starts a cup and then abandons it hurts others and creates extra work for our GMs.
It would be a nice realistic add on if player get a skill info for a skill that is important for the position he played, may be from same skill selection as for individual training. Keeper for example would get a keeper, defending or set pieces skill info, but never a scoring info.


It was removed for a reason and will most likely never return


x


x
It is an option, but ....


x
The current implementation though gives you info that by mistake you did not spot.


x
Fot instance: If you got a keeper and do not know that you can learn it by this mechanism. Same for other skills. Thats important as well.


=== newbies and new features ===
You can have your scout tell you on scoring and the trainer will one day tell you (inspite the fact the player plays as forward) that this guy has now passable defending. This is better than your suggestion.


96 From: HT-Tjecken
To: Iedereen (2349939.141), answering 2349939.132
17-01-2005, at 13:07
These recent changes will not hurt newbies at all, I think these changes will give newbies a much better game experience. It might be harder for them to expand their arena, but making a game easy is not the formula for a good game experience. And game experience is very important, and in fact what this is all about.


It is a better experience to start out small and grow than starting big and shrink. It's a better game experience to be forced to choose between different strategies/actions for your teams growth than having one obvious strategy/action to "choose". So even if the game may be a _little_ more difficult for newbie’s (because they start with 100 supporters and the fact that it will be more costly to expand your arena, even if the need for expanding a 12k arena isn't that big the first seasons), they will for sure gain from a better game experience.
By: flameron
To: Kniff    11733234.14  as reply to 11733234.12
  16.8.2008 at 22:14
Benotzer aus de Favoritten
Any type of message could appear only once in training report.
It should be random if several messgaes can be created (like several players have maxed out, gained skill, etc.). The order should be random as well (which means if you have two players that have maxed out you could get a messgae on any of them every week with no ability to predict the actual order - xx, yx, xy or yy should have the same probability for two training reports as a specific example).


What about the game experience these changes have on our "old" user then? Well, it's not as dramatic as for the newbie’s, but it may force you to think twice before expanding your arena. The costs side of the economy haven't been changed much since the start of Hattrick, which in fact may have hurt the game experience because salaries are the only cost today that really counts. The changes we've made which affects the cost side lately have all been adding game experience, just think of the "change coach" feature today compared to the old one, and we hope that the increased arena expanding costs also will give you a slightly better game experience.
If you have evidance that its not like that you could present them here and I will try and check. There is a wish to improve the current mechanism but we need resources which were not available lately. It might be prioritize lower with the other tasks planned for the future but my guess it will happen eventually. Please be patient with it (I know its not good how it works now).
Does this mean that more costs will be increased? Well, maybe - but we will announce such things well in advance on My Hattrick.


Finally, I heard some of you saying things about the economy will be even worse because of this. Let me just remind you all about that the economy is growing (as I stated a few weeks ago) really good, and the new public (and fan) formulas will make it grow even faster as spectator income will be much higher than before.
By: flameron
To: Kniff    11733234.18  as reply to 11733234.15
  16.8.2008 at 22:33
Benotzer aus de Favoritten
Question is if there were other players that you know to reach their max potential in skills that were trained during the same week, and how many of them.


=== starting conditions ===
If there are 2 players (including your keeper) its not that rare that you will get the same player reported several weeks in a row. It is reasonable to assume that only those users will feel annoyed and reply in the forum about that. Still, if it will look like there is a chance of a bug I will try and look into it (already did that with no sign of bug but will do it again).


97 From: HT-Hasse
By: flameron
To: mind_hunter666 (2359874.4), answering 2359874.1
To: Ratsia    11733234.22  as reply to 11733234.16
17-01-2005, at 19:18
  16.8.2008 at 22:38
Every time something in the game changes someone will gain and someone will lose. The only way to avoid this would be to never change anything at all. Using that principle Hattrick would still be played only in Swedish, with a couple of thousand users only.
Benotzer aus de Favoritten
I'm not going to discuss the possible improvements as you said there are no resources now


On the other hand there are lots of things which are better for you who started now than for others who started previously. For instance you start with an equivalent of 300,000 EURO. When I started I got 75,000 EURO. I also got a smaller stadium (6000) and worse players.


And yes, you start with 100 supporters. But you also start with a lot more generous supporters than those who started a season ago. Most of them have lost a couple of hundred supporters. You will most likely gain quite a lot of supporters right from the start.
Why not. Maybe you will have something we did not think of.


98 From: HT-Tjecken
... but could you at least add the information in the rules? Just two sentences saying the same thing I quoted.  
To: Pranas (2349939.188), answering 2349939.150
17-01-2005, at 15:58
The difference in when you started playing have always mattered, and there is now way to change that from happen if we don't like a game where all new starting teams will be just as good as the best ones in the league. Time does matter, and will always do so - yesterday, today and tomorrow.


Also, I don't agree in your predictions about the gap will be bigger. It may be more expensive to expand your arena, but new users will also start with an arena almost twice (yes, it's almost doubled!) as big as before. With the increase ticket prices they have a chance to make even more money than "older newbie’s", and at the same time be able to invest money in your players (which in fact is really funny, especially for a newbie).


As I said in my earlier post, making a game as simple as possible to reach the skill as older teams have is not the same thing as a good gaming experience. It may be your opinion, but not our. The best game experience is to start with something small and develop it with your own hands (and brain!) to something great, and it should not be as playing a self playing piano.
Will check this.


x


=== scoring a goal ===
By: flameron
To: Hasenohr    11733234.23  as reply to 11733234.21
  16.8.2008 at 22:40
Benotzer aus de Favoritten
What´s about players, who got no addition of stars over two month? Ist it possible, that the messages will stop after a defined period of time?
I saw some and hear about many more of this cases.


104 HT Bjorn:
The difference between one team's attack ratings and another team's defence ratings, says nothing definite about the chances to score goals. Defence ratings can only be compared with other defence ratings, attack ratings only with other attack ratings.
So you could say: when I met team A, they had poorer defence ratings than team B, (I had the same ratings) - But I still scored more against B. That’s strange.
But you can’t say: I had titanic defence, while he only had magnificent attack. Titanic is better than magnificent, so it has to be a bug that he scored against me.
x
x
=== general statement ===
146 From: HT-Bjorn
To: Iedereen (2636166.29), answering 2636166.1
25-02-2005, at 20:28
Everyone,
Let me state here and now, once and for all:
* I have not stated, and I will not state, whether the game engine is linear or not.
* In a matter such as this one, there are very few members even of the HT-team who knows for sure exactly how it works. Remember that not every word spoken by a person with HT-prefix should automatically be considered an official statement representing the whole HT-team. (Although, you may consider this particular posting an official statement from the only one who knows for sure about this particular question :).
* The Match Engine works exactly as it is intended in this respect (whether that be linear or non-linear). This also implies that there is no reason to suggest fixes for this or that, because we are well aware of the implications of how it works, and have designed the game engine as a whole based on that design.
* I will (probably) not answer any follow-up questions in this or other threads about this matter, beyond what I state above.
=== hidden skills ===
147 HT-Hasse:
In your opinion, about how many hidden skills are there for a player?
None. And we have stated that very clearly numerous times
x
=== Leadership ===
154 HT-unknown
Ex-coaches still lose leadership
x
=== health updates and training ===
{{forum_message|
  | from      = HT-Hasse
  | to        = TommieW
  | msgid    = 5124789.20
  | prevmsgid = 5124789.5
  | datetime  = 8-2-2006 at 21:16
  | keywords  = (training), (health update)
  | text      =
''In every country there's first the daily health update, and directly after that the training.''
That is incorrect. In fact there is no way of knowing which is updated first for a specific player.
}}
{{forum_message|
  | from      = HT-Hasse
  | to        = TommieW
  | msgid    = 5124789.22
  | prevmsgid = 5124789.21
  | datetime  = 8-2-2006 at 21:20
  | keywords  = (training), (health update)
  | text      =
''Then I stand corrected. I always assumed the health update would be finished before the training starts (since it doesn't take that long and starts earlier)''
To be quite clear it actually used to work that way once, but that was a very very long time ago (my guess is 2 years+).
}}
x
x


What I said is how it should work. If you got any strong case of something looking wierd you can post it here, but please add complete data so in case you miss something other users can help you understand without me needing to answer any reply. The more data (and a 100% verified data) is posted the higher the chance you will get an answer from other users or me.


[[Category:HTs on Global|*]]
[[Category:HTs on Global|*]]

Latest revision as of 13:31, 30 January 2009

By: HT-Tjecken To: Frank-LNC 10664071.30 as reply to 10664071.24 

  8.2.2008 at 10:44

The whole new denomination scale of "hopeless", "prodigious", etc has been cancelled now? Does this mean all youth-players have the same training speed? For once and for all: That scale had nothing to do with training speed.

All youth players don't have the same training speed, but the difference (which depend on their character, right now a hidden value) is marginal.

By: HT-Tjecken To: dancing_rob 10664071.45 as reply to 10664071.39 

  8.2.2008 at 11:08

my best guess is that it referred to the difference between where the player was now (eg poor) and their max potential (eg solid)

I'm as intrigued as everyone else as to exactly what it meant though! Close, but no cigar.

It was a combination of current skill level and potential skill level.


By: HT-Tjecken To: Everyone 10664071.110 as reply to 10664071.103 

  8.2.2008 at 14:47

I read on our youthacademy forum that people got trainingmessage with [level] in there instead of the real level. And then I literaqlly mean "[level]" instead of inadequate or apssable or whatever. Ok, this one is sorted out now.

By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.331 as reply to 10664071.330 

  10.2.2008 at 07:59

I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more. At least when it comes to Passing, he's simply unable to improve any more. This is a new one too, but I guess it is about completed player. Last comment only means his passing is maxed out.


By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.333 as reply to 10664071.332 

  10.2.2008 at 08:03

Ok, I got that on IM, while training PM + PS. Meaning he could still be a PM talent?

The message is exact on the skill which is maxed out. If his PM is mentioned he will not respond to playmaking training.

By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.335 as reply to 10664071.334 

  10.2.2008 at 08:06

I got a similar message when training wing + ps with him (but then it wasnt mentioned which skill he was maxed in). Now I know ps cant be training - but then he could be trained in PM + WG, right?

I refer only to the new comment type in which the exact skill is stated.


By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.337 as reply to 10664071.336 

  10.2.2008 at 09:28

Ok. What about the old one that doesn't mentioned which skill? Could it be that one of the skills at the then current time could be worth training?

Yes. It meant that the total skills left to train are quite low. This message is removed due to better info in the new messages.


By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.339 as reply to 10664071.338 

  10.2.2008 at 09:33

Here are the messages:

NEW (training PM/PS): Match I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more. At least when it comes to Passing, he's simply unable to improve any more.


PREVIOUS (at that time, trained WG/PS): Match In my opinion, Lars Langeland is not going to reach his potential as a footballer unless he gets some Playmaking training.


The old message you put here is still valid. I meant the "can not improve" unrelated to skill message.


By: flameron To: wildkick 10664071.341 as reply to 10664071.340 

  10.2.2008 at 09:40

Ok. You really think he can still be a good prospect when the coach says: " I don't think the youth team is the right place for Lars Langeland any more"?

I know passing training will not do any good, ref. also your comment above. But if that sentence does not mean what it says, he might be able to improve in wing or pm?

Regarding the old message, I thought that that meant that ONE of the skills he was training at that time, didnt do him any good. As he was training WG + PS, that might just be the passing part? Or, is further wing training out of the question as well?

Maybe those messages means he is not going to improve much in ANY skill?

(a bit messy post, but hope you get my point)

I gave you all the info you need.


By: flameron To: Kniff 10664071.457 as reply to 10664071.455 

  13.2.2008 at 09:31

I really like the new reports:

"Também treinámos Criatividade esta semana. Ao observar o João Luz, parece-me que ele está no nível desastroso nesta característica."

In english says something like my GK is disastrous PM at this time...

Very usefull information!!


yes my keeper got a scoring skill info.

It would be a nice realistic add on if player get a skill info for a skill that is important for the position he played, may be from same skill selection as for individual training. Keeper for example would get a keeper, defending or set pieces skill info, but never a scoring info.


It is an option, but ....

The current implementation though gives you info that by mistake you did not spot.

Fot instance: If you got a keeper and do not know that you can learn it by this mechanism. Same for other skills. Thats important as well.

You can have your scout tell you on scoring and the trainer will one day tell you (inspite the fact the player plays as forward) that this guy has now passable defending. This is better than your suggestion.


By: flameron To: Kniff 11733234.14 as reply to 11733234.12 

  16.8.2008 at 22:14

Benotzer aus de Favoritten Any type of message could appear only once in training report. It should be random if several messgaes can be created (like several players have maxed out, gained skill, etc.). The order should be random as well (which means if you have two players that have maxed out you could get a messgae on any of them every week with no ability to predict the actual order - xx, yx, xy or yy should have the same probability for two training reports as a specific example).

If you have evidance that its not like that you could present them here and I will try and check. There is a wish to improve the current mechanism but we need resources which were not available lately. It might be prioritize lower with the other tasks planned for the future but my guess it will happen eventually. Please be patient with it (I know its not good how it works now).

By: flameron To: Kniff 11733234.18 as reply to 11733234.15 

  16.8.2008 at 22:33

Benotzer aus de Favoritten Question is if there were other players that you know to reach their max potential in skills that were trained during the same week, and how many of them.

If there are 2 players (including your keeper) its not that rare that you will get the same player reported several weeks in a row. It is reasonable to assume that only those users will feel annoyed and reply in the forum about that. Still, if it will look like there is a chance of a bug I will try and look into it (already did that with no sign of bug but will do it again).

By: flameron To: Ratsia 11733234.22 as reply to 11733234.16 

  16.8.2008 at 22:38

Benotzer aus de Favoritten I'm not going to discuss the possible improvements as you said there are no resources now


Why not. Maybe you will have something we did not think of.

... but could you at least add the information in the rules? Just two sentences saying the same thing I quoted.


Will check this.


By: flameron To: Hasenohr 11733234.23 as reply to 11733234.21 

  16.8.2008 at 22:40

Benotzer aus de Favoritten What´s about players, who got no addition of stars over two month? Ist it possible, that the messages will stop after a defined period of time? I saw some and hear about many more of this cases.


What I said is how it should work. If you got any strong case of something looking wierd you can post it here, but please add complete data so in case you miss something other users can help you understand without me needing to answer any reply. The more data (and a 100% verified data) is posted the higher the chance you will get an answer from other users or me.

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