HTs on Global/Alltid

From Hattrick
Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Tjecken (11858197.1) as reply to ()
To: Everyone 15-09-2008 at 10:04
Today I got some really pleasant news, especially for all of you who love statistics! As you can see on MyHT space now (or in a minute), Alltid will become a part of Hattrick.

This means there will be a lot more statistics to enjoy within Hattrick, and also some brand new cool statistics to look forward to in the future. For us (and I also speak for weird_Ed) this feels fantastic and we're really eager to get started. :)

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Tjecken (11858197.25) as reply to (11858197.18)
To: jacek_BTL 15-09-2008 at 10:25
Will all current alltid features be accessible to all HT users, or will some of them be limited to supporters only?

Today's Alltid Plus (Alltid's premium service) features will become Supporter features. So our supporters will get some really nice new features "for free" so to say (congratulation to all supporters!).

Apart from that, more or less everything else will be available for everyone. Perhaps there will be some more distinction (like Supporters may get "bigger top lists", while non-Supporters get smaller top lists), but we hope to make the most features available for all users.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge), (Clubhouse)
From: weird_ed (11858197.26) as reply to (11858197.16)
To: EchoMan 15-09-2008 at 10:26
You talk about Clubhouse, right? :P

The biggest issue for both Hattrick and me during our talks was that we didn't want to end up in a new clubhouse situation. That's why it's very important for us to actually move everything over to the standard Hattrick platform so it all lives in harmony, and can be developed/maintained by the HT dev team as usual. This never happened with Clubhouse, unfortunately.

This is also why we want to spend some time on it, so we are sure we will get it right.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.29) as reply to (11858197.9)
To: Rahvean 15.9.2008 at 10:28
What about Maptrick? It was going to move integrate with alltid.

This will still happen in some form. And I think it's a very good thing for some of the Maptrick functionality to get better data from HT. Some Maptrick functions won't make much sense within Hattrick though, so it's something we'll have to consider as we go.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Tjecken (11858197.31) as reply to (11858197.20)
To: Ratsia 15-09-2008 at 10:32
I can't answer on all your questions today unfortunately, exactly what will happen with each statistics (Supporter vs Alltid) is not set in stone yet (as you perhaps understood from my previous post in this thread). But our aim is certainly to provide more and better statistics, not the other way round. And we don't feel any pride that our current Supporter statistics must stay as they are, I mean - they should really be improved!
Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.33) as reply to (11858197.20)
To: Ratsia 15-09-2008 at 10:43
It would be nice to know that such a great merge does not mean we actually lose some of the services we have received from Alltid thus far.

You ask some very good questions, but it's hard to give a definitive answer to all of those at this moment. But I'm definitely keeping them in mind.

I'm very intent on making everything a better experience for everyone. Even so, there will probably be one or two things which might not work as good as they used to, while most things should work better.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.37) as reply to (11858197.33)
To: jacek_BTL 15-09-2008 at 10:47
Another problem is: alltid lists contain sometimes quite a lot of teams.

One solution to this would be to make better summary information on each team page. Something which should be a lot easier to do now. It's definitely something I'll look into.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Tjecken (11858197.39) as reply to (11858197.38)
To: HardRocker 15-09-2008 at 10:54
Can you give us a more detailed explaination about how "integrated" the two systems will be?

Pretty much like Romeo and Juliet. ;)

I guess weird_ed can tell you a bit more of that, but in principle it will be Hattrick containing all of Alltid's features. As mentioned, we don't want to make another Clubhouse (a stand-alone unit outside Hattrick) mistake. So everything will be inside Hattrick.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Tjecken (11858197.64) as reply to (11858197.60)
To: Ratsia 15-09-2008 at 12:00
Of course. The crucial question just is whether you consider the current status of HT as the baseline, or the combination of HT and Alltid. :)

The latter. We're very keen on making this a positive thing for everyone (and all the way), so we hope to include everything and we also want to improve the "combined product" even more after the integration. That said, there might be some stuff which just don't fit for any reason (but right now I can't really mention what that could be or if anything like that exists at all).

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Johan (11858197.73) as reply to (11858197.65)
To: Ratsia 15-09-2008 at 12:44
So, then we'll know who we'll meet in the cup the monday after the league ends? Alltid has always provided this service, will Hattrick do that now?

That is a good example of something that should be a part of regular Hattrick. We wont move all features in one go, though, the Alltid site will coexist with Hattrick and run as normal until we feel all the relevant things are integrated into Hattrick. Of course we see the current Alltid features as a baseline to be improved upon, this will give us a new database devoted to stats, and it is very much our intention to put it to full use.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: HT-Johan (11858197.75) as reply to (11858197.74)
To: Catalyst2950 15-09-2008 at 12:52
Getting Alltid was the best thing that ever happened to Hattrick, just so you know :)

Yep, we are pretty excited about it, too!

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.121) as reply to (11858197.91)
To: enigmamz 16-09-2008 at 08:23
Will it still be independently run, with you all just using it as needed, or will it become part of Extralives?

It will be a part of Extralives/Hattrick.

This is a good thing, because it ensures what happened to Clubhouse don't happen to the stats.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.122) as reply to (11858197.94)
To: PalinM 16-09-2008 at 08:25
One of the things I have used a lot on Alltid is the posibility of making groups af friand and federations. Will this be posisible in HT to??

Yes! I think the most entertaining thing about stats is to compare your team to your friends teams, and find that one stat where you might have an advantage, just so you can brag about it :) The team compare/grouping functions will stay, for sure.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.123) as reply to (11858197.108)
To: Calvert 16-09-2008 at 08:29
Well, the non-supporters who paid for a lifetime Alltid subscription because they couldn't afford Hattrick supporter really got hosed.

I think it's too early to say if anyone got hosed by this. You'll have to wait and see what's gonna happen with the stats, how it's presented and how much non-supporters gets access to.

My personal opinion is that no one will get hosed. Quite the opposite.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.124) as reply to (11858197.114)
To: Aildrek 16-09-2008 at 08:32
For instance it should be possible to search for players of a certain nationality throughout the whole hattrick world like it can be done within each nation.

You mean like this? [1]

What about nt-db, weird_Ed? Was it not about to fuse with alltid as well?

I'm not sure if NT-DB style functionality is something which HT should provide, to be honest. Either way, it won't happen in a long time. Sorry :-/

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.125) as reply to (11858197.116)
To: Wupper18 16-09-2008 at 08:32
Will the number of clicks of Alltid-Statistics still be restricted for non-Supporters?

I can't really answer this yet. The reason is simply that integrating the stats into Hattrick (the new design) requires a lot of planning and re-thinking of a lot of things. We'll know more about the limits of non-supporters once we've chosen a model of integration.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.128) as reply to (11858197.127)
To: MD-JakobTrier 16.9.2008 at 08:52
That surely is a very important function to many national teams, please do not remove it in the future.

I don't see any reason why it would be removed.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.146) as reply to (11858197.144)
To: kopsterkespits 17.9.2008 at 08:16
Hoping for something you do when things are not in your hands and you're not the one that's able to control it.

That's just nitpicking. We will implement the stats in the new design, and in different ways. It takes a lot more work than just letting the site stay and then declare "function X is supporter-only from now on!"

There are many things to consider when it comes to what should be available, how it should be available, and for who, and we have to find a balance. Obviously it won't end up with everything being fully open for everyone, I think we all realize that. So we *hope* to find a perfect balance for everyone, but we're not that far along in the process yet.

That being said - I'm pretty sure that even if there are some limits for non-supporters, the overall product will still be better even for them. At least that's my goal with the whole operation.

@Wierd Ed: I hope that the extra money you recieve will make up for the grieve you'll get once you see that your original idea, statistics for everyone, will go down the drain.

Actually, my original idea was "I want stats for my own league, damnit!" :)

I don't think you have anything to worry about, my friend.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Statistics), (Merge)
From: weird_ed (11858197.149) as reply to (11858197.148)
To: jacek_BTL 17.9.2008 at 10:53
Now everything at Alltid is fully open for everyone (only sometimes you have to be patient and wait a moment if there's too many people trying to get stats at the same time). So does this mean that a user without either HT Supporter or Alltid Plus will have access to less statistics after the integration than he has now?

Everyone won't get everything. But I can't yet say if that means you'll get less than today.

All in all, it's an impossible question to answer today, for the reasons I mentioned in the post you quoted.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Availability), (Merge)
From: HT-Johan (12142393.6) as reply to (12142393.5)
To: alenkin 10.11.2008 at 16:25
Alltid will be online until it has been fully integrated into Hattrick, that is until the same stats are available here, so probably at least 6 months more.
Keywords: (Alltid), (Merge)
From: HT-weird_ed (13112291.11) as reply to (13112291.8)
To: _DAGG_ 22.07.2009 at 16:52
It's taking more time than we had planned, unfortunately. But there are good news ahead, as we have the backend pretty much in place now. It has taken a lot of time, as any operation on this huuuge database is challenging my patience, and there's often very little else to do but to wait (for hours).

Now we need to do some proper load testing, to see if it's fast enough. Unless there's something which needs to be changed, we should start adding stuff to the web site soon :)

Keywords: (Alltid), (Merge)
From: HT-Thomas (13465232.51) as reply to (13465232.32)
To: Everyone 22.11.2009 at 14:34
Alltid has during the year been "moved" to a new platform. Doing this having ~3TB data and ~4 billion rows is not something you do over a day/week/month. Also, since the old system and the new system "behaves" differently we had to do numerous tests. We couldn't and didn't want to copy and paste the same old solution either. All these tests takes lots of time with this amount of data. If a test failed, we had to start over again. A really tedious and boring task but we are through it now, finally.

A couple of weeks ago, we installed new hardware for the db-server, improving and solving the last issue we had.

We are currently in the process of coding the actual pages, integrating it into Hattrick web pages. I'm not sure about how long this part will take but I'm hoping to have something tested on stage in a couple of weeks.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Merge)
From: HT-Thomas (13465232.91) as reply to (13465232.90)
To: alexmader 09.12.2009 at 17:17
We have today released a first very basic version of integrated "Alltid" on stage. We call it "StatsCenter". If you are interested in testing it out and you do not have access to Stage, apply for access to Stage. The link is under "My Hattrick".
Keywords: (Alltid), (Merge)
From: HT-Johan (14075393.28) as reply to (14075393.1)
To: Jestar 24.05.2010 at 11:27
We don't plan to let Alltid die. However, we are currently not working towards a full integration of Alltid into Hattrick as we originally planned. This doesn't mean that won't happen, but that it is more important for us that Alltid continues as a resource for the community in any form than that it continues as a part of Hattrick.

I'm not going to go into details, but integration was halted both because the backend work needed turned out to be both more complicated and time-consuming than anyone anticipated. Much of that is done now, but as time has passed there are now pressing needs in the original site and we don't want to force an integration and risk losing the appeal of the original site in the process.

Keywords: (Alltid), (Merge)
From: HT-Johan (14075393.141) as reply to (14075393.53)
To: l-lT-Uber-Alles 29.05.2010 at 16:56
I hope you understand why people think you are letting it die. It doesn't look good the way you've handled it.

a) cut CHPP off. b) buy up the biggest and arguably the best CHPP site for stats c) let it fall apart

It kind of makes it look like you are forcing people into purchasing supporter to the simple folk out here. Some of us not-so-simple folk have our doubts too.

Yes, I understand why people see it this way. It has taken way longer than it should have. The reason the current Alltid site has not been very much updated is that weird_ed has spent much of his available time on the integration to HT, specifically in building a completely new database structure for it as it was already on the verge of breaking when we bought it and would never have been able to take the increase in traffic that would have happened when we started promoting it directly through Hattrick. It has taken way more time than anyone could have anticipated, inclusing weird_ed, and no one is very happy about that. What we have come to realize now is that after all this delay in solving the backend, we do not want to rush into the integration [of the front end], that is, moving Alltid functionality into Hattrick and closing Alltid down. We realize that we must now instead see to the usability of the site as it is now, and only later think about moving stuff into Hattrick because the way Alltid works now is not acceptable.

I don't know, I think if our intention had been solely to snuff Alltid and get people to buy Supporter, there would have been better ways to do it. For example to close Alltid and only offer their stats to Supporters, which is pretty much the complete opposite of what we have actually done :)