HTs on Global/Hattrick Website
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.1) as reply to (0) | |
| To: Everyone | 12.08.2008 10:12 | ||
| As you now can read on editorial space, the current (old) design is making itself ready for retirement. It has some flaws and other problem, and that's the reason for the retirement. I also think you are aware of these flaws/problems as you use it everyday.
We know that many of you are really used to this design, but even so we hope you also understand the reasons for retirement. Because there are even brighter Hattrick days and moments to come, in the coming design which we think you will come to like even more. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.7) as reply to (11718558.2) | |
| To: Sir_Dancelot | 12.08.2008 10:18 | ||
| Yeehar! New forum engine as well? Pretty please? ;-)
Allrightie then. :) The forum today is very good for experienced forum users, for those who make a rare visit (or new users) it's really not good at all. So our aim is to make it a lot easier to use in order to make more people interested in the forums. But at the same time we will naturally also think a lot about those who already spend a lot of time here, we will not forget your wishes so to say. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.9) as reply to (11718558.3) | |
| To: forst | 12.08.2008 10:19 | ||
| When do you think the new design will be ready?
In 2-3 months, something like that. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.12) as reply to (11718558.11) | |
| To: Mravo | 12.08.2008 10:23 | ||
| Any screenshots for those who can't wait? ;)
We will post screenshots eventually, but you'll have to wait a little bit longer. :) | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.14) as reply to (11718558.13) | |
| To: Mravo | 12.08.2008 10:27 | ||
| Will the re-design address the impossible-to-navigate NT/U20 section of the menus?
The international section will be redesigned, but in this case we will do it in several steps. There will be a general tidying up of that hopeless mess, but we have more ideas for thaty section than we will release in the first version. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.20) as reply to (11718558.15) | |
| To: Karl-Heinz-Spock | 12.08.2008 10:31 | ||
| The new design will include a changelog-site besides that MyHT-space, for smaller things? A Bugtracking-site?
I'm not sure that will make it to the first version, but it's in the loop. We have a quite nice overall plan for informational issues, but as it includes a lot of new functionality it will probably not make it to the first version. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.24) as reply to (11718558.20) | |
| To: HT-Tjecken | 12.08.2008 10:36 | ||
| The new design will include a changelog-site besides that MyHT-space, for smaller things? A Bugtracking-site?
I'm not sure that will make it to the first version, but it's in the loop. We have a quite nice overall plan for informational issues, but as it includes a lot of new functionality it will probably not make it to the first version. Let me add to that we nowadays have a stage server, where all new code is tested live with users before coming to the main site, and in that environment we do have a public bugtracking tool. The stage server is currently invitation-only, but we aim to make it possible for everyone to get a place there (but not everyone at once) ;) | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.38) as reply to (11718558.35) | |
| To: Drittaccount | 12.08.2008 10:53 | ||
| btw: There are loads of CHPP not active and dead. Will you use the new design to clean it up and reopen officially the CHPP process?
CHPP is definitely going to get more attention from us. We are not using the redesign as a way to kill off inactive apps, but if that is a byproduct of the change, that is probably a good thing. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.54) as reply to (11718558.45) | |
| To: hrvojek | 12.08.2008 11:17 | ||
| Do you plan to make a transition period, i.e. to make both design schemas active? Is there any chance that one could choose between designs at least for some time (as is done with Youth Schools)?
No, and no. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.62) as reply to (11718558.50) | |
| To: Jensor | 12.08.2008 11:29 | ||
| Could you give some additional information on the aspect of browsing HT on a mobile device?
It will be a lot easier to navigate the coming design from a mobile phone, and even easier if we make a special skin for it. It's in our interest too, as we would like if users (ourself included) could bring Hattrick with them everywhere. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11718558.85) as reply to (11718558.68) | |
| To: wimpiethereal | 12.08.2008 12:13 | ||
| Why couldn't we choose for the "old" design?
There are many reasons actually, but the biggest reason is perhaps that having two completely different designs also means we have to maintain two designs. This means that we have to add all new functionality twice and instead of having to do write one new page (or correct something in a page), we have to write _two_ compeletely new pages (or correct something, but in two different ways, twice). As you can imagine, it would take a lot of time (more than double the amount of time it will take now, as the coming design will be a lot easier to work with) and that's time which could be so much better spent on other things. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.91) as reply to (11718558.86) | |
| To: wimpiethereal | 12.08.2008 12:29 | ||
| After the article I had read i think all these thiongs will only good for new users. What with the 200 thousand active old users?
We don´t think so. To a certain extent anew design is a matter of taste, and old users may have a harder time than others to get use to the new style than others. But that is no argument for never changing. I think you either develop or decline. The question is not whether to change or not, it is how you build on your heritage rather than squander it. We also think there is a lot of changes in the new designs that are not matter of taste, they are simply objective improvements. There are a lot of compromises that has been done over the years as we tried to cope with the design decisions that were made in the past. It´s natural, but it also makes it necessary to tidy up once in a while. I think it will be liberating for us. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.93) as reply to (11718558.92) | |
| To: Jackwewo_HFF | 12.08.2008 12:36 | ||
| Will it be possible to go on with this "graphic style" of the site (maybe an option in the preferences menu)?
We will offer a skin that is similar to the current design. Since it is only a skin, it will follow the new navigation and organization, but I don´t think that particular change will be very shocking to anyone. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.141) as reply to (11718558.129) | |
| To: oldtrafford | 12.08.2008 16:03 | ||
| Will there be more extra's for the supporters? Something like more slots for feds, more bookmarks (or a possible change from youthplayers to fora or players or users or...the total remains, but the choice is ours)...and more stuff that you can find out by yourself...;-)
Supporters will get a few improvements in the new design, both by way of making existing features but also a few extras stuck in. I think the stuff in pipeline will raise a few eyebrows! But Supporter is not the main purpose of the redesign. Now, once the redesign is done, Supporter is one of the things we hope to be able to give more attention to - we have done very little for Supporters in the last two years I´m afraid. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.142) as reply to (11718558.135) | |
| To: rei85 | 12.08.2008 16:04 | ||
| The editorial says:
It would also be nice to have a set of icons in the same style and from the same source (today's icons are in different styles and from different sources), and we would like it to be easier to make different skins for Hattrick, something which is quite hard today. What does this exactly mean? Will it be easier for you or for us too? I'm a foxtrick user and I love make customized skin for hattrick. I'm very interested in how the layout will change. User-designed skins will not be possible at launch, at least not supported by us. But it should be quite possible indeed further down the line. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.150) as reply to (11718558.145) | |
| To: Lou_Dog | 12.8.2008 at 16:41 | ||
| Please, not more "gimmicks". Its a text based game, and imho the core should stay that way. I expect Hattrick still to be rather a good book than a Hollywood Blockbuster after the relaunch. Imho it especially would be important to take attention on consistency. E.g. i never understood why we are able to access the team page through the mainheader on some pages (Players, Hall of Fame...) and have to use the back button on other sub-pages (transfer-history, youth acedemy). Stuff like that is urgent. New player faces? Who cares?
I am sure you must be worried about the blistering pace at which we are transforming ourselves froma text game into an immersive multimedia experience :) No, but seriously, I could not agree with you more. I am of the "Hattrick as book" category myself. I don´t even care that much for numbers, although I know a lot of you do. That said, I don´t think it is out of place to have some elements on the site as for example Flash, but there is no need for it to look like Flash, it should just be Flash because that offers the right functionality. At the very least it should blend in with the other stuff and not be mandatory. And I think the site will be more consistent as a result of the redesign. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.188) as reply to (11718558.172) | |
| To: RebelClown | 12.8.2008 at 20:26 | ||
| Professional curiosity: are you going to do some kind of usability study?
Another one you mean? Yes, probably... ;) | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11718558.310) as reply to (11718558.294) | |
| To: simcamil | 14.8.2008 at 04:39 | ||
| Any new design is welcome but PLEASE don't use flash. At least don't do a redisign with 90% flash.
Hattrick will continue to use flash where appropriate. Various applications, and add ons work well in the flash environment, others not so much. We have no plans to massively increase the amount of flash for the sake of being cool and trendy. It would only lead to simliar problems that current frame-based design suffers from. The editorial addresses issues such as the current lack of bookmarking because of frame usage. A 100% flash site would cause similar problems, amongst other things. Hattrick is generally not the sort of site that lends itself to a complete flash solution, so all the people worrying can be safe in the knowledge that the redesign isn't going to be a major flash reworking. The project is intended to make things better for everyone, the devolpers and the users. Overuse of flash would be counterproductive to that aim. | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11718558.313) as reply to (11718558.312) | |
| To: BWO-Goatboy | 14.8.2008 at 07:07 | ||
| Would relating the new layout to that of buzzerbeater or popmundo be accurate?
Any comment on that front would lead to a shedload of speculation and / or thread rumouring. As is wont on the forums. So, I'll leave specifics out of it. The new hattrick design will however incorporate a much improved CSS model that will be more accessible to skinning, if that's what you're in to. Therefore it will reflect aspects of the buzzerbeater experience on a technical level. As far as the web-experience and graphics go, we are producing a hattrick 2008 style that we feel is true to the current game that we know and love. | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11718558.320) as reply to (11718558.315) | |
| To: Calvert | 14.8.2008 at 08:04 | ||
| The older Hattrick design was quite amenable to skinning and many high quality skins were made by several people. I used many of them myself. Then Buzzerbeater came and the ads that the HTs were using were designed so that they could be seen through the skins, even with supporter, defeating one of the main purpose of having skins to begin with. Then the site was redesigned and all skins were made worthless and very few of them were remade so that they would work because no one knew what the next change would be or when it would come.
If you're going to be using the experience the Hattrick site had with Buzzerbeater as a positive example, an experience which was one of the most flagrantly aggressive and deliberately antagonistic marketing stratagems I've seen outside of commercial spammers (and which made me never even want to come close to the game ever), I cannot possibly see how the redesign can be an improvement. The skinning is workable with the current design, but involves dedication and numerous fiddly workarounds to get things working properly. It works, but amenable it is most certainly not. By definition, the web-experience I'm talking about is purely navigational and aesthetic as far as hattrick goes and also relates in part to the positive experiences gleaned from the systematic CSS model used elsewhere in a technical sense. It relates in no shape or form to marketing of anything at all. | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11718558.322) as reply to (11718558.321) | |
| To: Calvert | 14.8.2008 at 08:25 | ||
| I hope you can understand just why I am now exceptionally skeptical about this whole process. There was nothing, nothing about Buzzerbeater's influence on the HT website itself that was a positive change for the players during the time that they were here. From what I have read here it was real positive for them, though.
Buzzerbeater has, to my knowledge, had no influence at all on the design of the Hattrick-website. Which aspects of the "influence" are you sceptical about ? | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.360) as reply to (11718558.357) | |
| To: Everyone | 15.8.2008 at 11:24 | ||
| We haven´t changed our stance on Flash. We will use it more or less the same way we do today, if it´s within the central gameplay it will always be optional. Hattrick is and will remain a text-based game, because that is how we like it. It will perfectly accessible by mobile devices after the redesign as well. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.365) as reply to (11718558.362) | |
| To: Seran | 15.8.2008 at 11:34 | ||
| So waht does this mean in the practical sense?
It means that in this regard things will not change from how they are now. Flash has it´s place today, and it has a very similar role on the new site. There will not be lots of Flash on the new site, and Flash will not decrease the accessibility on the new site. | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11718558.335) as reply to (11718558.330) | |
| To: Calvert | 14.8.2008 um 19:12 | ||
| We are at crossed purposes here I feel.
You have said that the upcoming change to the website will be aesthetic and graphical in nature and used the relationship with Buzzerbeater as a positive example as to how this was going to be accomplished. You also said that the new format was going to make skinning the website far easier. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. The changes are aesthetical as well as technical. On the one hand, there is the appearance of the website, which is being designed as hattrick, regardless of outside influences and on the other hand, the way the HTML and CSS is handled will be redone. I'll address the buzzerbeater question at the end of the post, as the answer is more pertinent to your final point. This is why I have the issue. When the Buzzerbeater ads were placed on the HT website they were designed so that they would crack through skins. They were impossible to get rid of and they were formatted in such a manner that they could not be adblocked .. (snip). The ability to place a flash banner on the hattrick site has, as far as I know, always been available to the development team. Nothing was changed to add that particular marketing campaign. The ads could just have easily been for sony vaio, apple mac or burger king. This is where our lines are crossed, the technical influence of buzzerbeater doesn't extend to how advertisments are shown on hattirick - the two things are unrelated. If this is not the case, please tell us and be plain about it. By claiming that the relationship with Buzzerbeater and how it was handled was positive instead of badly designed, incredibly pushy and unnecessarily hard-sold I am very concerned about a repeat of what happened the next time the HTs have another business partner they want to promote...a repeat which would seem to be even more workable for you guys under the new design and even harder for us to get around. The relationship with other site hasn't been touted as positive example, but the way that the other site was programmed to provide a fluid layout with CSS. Looking purely at the buzzerbeater site as an abstracted entity, irrespective of adverstising, linking and and marketing, the positives to be drawn are based on the way their game site has been built. I could use a different example of a CSS based site, such as youtube and cite that as technical influence. The positives are based purely on knowledge of CSS and proper html standards. I can see your concerns with the way the relationship between the sites was handled, but I can assure you that that isn't the issue here and is actually a completely different conversation, that while interesting, has nothing to do with the actually redesign project we're discussing in this thread. Hattrick isn't being redesigned to make use of more advertising, but to be technically coherent with current web standards. Something that buzzerbeater is and we are not. Hope this clears things up. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.360) as reply to (11718558.357) | |
| To: Everyone | 15.8.2008 at 11:24 | ||
| We haven´t changed our stance on Flash. We will use it more or less the same way we do today, if it´s within the central gameplay it will always be optional. Hattrick is and will remain a text-based game, because that is how we like it. It will perfectly accessible by mobile devices after the redesign as well. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11718558.365) as reply to (11718558.362) | |
| To: Seran | 15.8.2008 at 11:34 | ||
| It means that in this regard things will not change from how they are now. Flash has it´s place today, and it has a very similar role on the new site. There will not be lots of Flash on the new site, and Flash will not decrease the accessibility on the new site. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11728805.21) as reply to (11728805.19) | |
| To: lauri_90 | 15.8.2008 at 13:47 | ||
| Is there news ticker in new design?
Yep, just to the right of the Hattrick logo as in the current design. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11728805.51) as reply to (11728805.40) | |
| To: jjcnn | 15.8.2008 at 14:09 | ||
| One thing springs to mind, though: It looks very, very green. Have you thought about adding just a bit more colour to the layout? Even the red hattrick mobile 'ad' in the top right corner adds alot to the current colour scheme.
Yes, we have. And the pictures will most likely get more colours, making it not only green. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11728805.57) as reply to (11728805.53) | |
| To: Dr_Death | 15.8.2008 at 14:15 | ||
| On the staff site, why do you waste so much space right in the middle, and why do you show one information (number of employees) twice?
We've actually played around a bit with the "wasted space" here. It's not unlikely that we remove some "wasted space" and place something else to the right (like the sponsor picture on the economy page). That said, we got to find something that fits too. But just as you we think it's not perfect. | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11728805.68) as reply to (11728805.56) | |
| To: Dr_Death | 15.8.2008 at 14:22 | ||
| Where will the mailbox be? I cannot see it in the menues...
In the My Hattrick menu, and a quick link of some kind too I suppose (all such links/icons aren't in this pictures, but there will be some of course). | |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11728805.83) as reply to (11728805.82) | |
| To: losmaster | 15.8.2008 at 14:42 | ||
| what if I don't have a YA? will those links still show in my left-hand menu? Because it would just be a waste of space for those without YAs.
No, the menu will only be there if you have a YA | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11728805.132) as reply to (11728805.126) | |
| To: rustie | 15.8.2008 at 17:24 | ||
| Will the forums be integrated like its currently or are you looking at moving to some form of seperate phpBB?
Also, alot of web-game sites have php-type forums, but it is apart from their game site, meaning you need a 2nd id and password for that forum board, leading to alot of confusion. Please keep it integrated in the game as it is now. I dont think you will make it seperate, but I just thought I'd ask it. Forums will of course not be under separate login, they will better integrated then they are today actually, as you will not need to reload frameset and "leave" the game when you enter the forums, as today, but it will rather be one of the choices in the top menu, and when you want to leave you can go to your Club for example in one click. | |||
| From: | HT-Oxidus | (11728805.254) as reply to (11728805.249) | |
| To: wurmi | 16.8.2008 at 14:02 | ||
| just one note: rounded corners were in fashion 2-3 years ago. nowaydays more and more websites are dumping them again.
There is one big advantage to using rounded corners. Once you have a robust css solution to display them, then square / cut-off / ornamental corners are a lot easier to do with the same css, as the box design has been thought through and properly implemented from the start. Just my opinion. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11728805.280) as reply to (11728805.279) | |
| To: brent_g | 16.8.2008 at 21:14 | ||
| Pff. :-/ Not really... Please read the other topic about the new design. :-)
Feedback has been overall positive in the forums I have checked, which is Global plus 5-6 national forums. Of course there are objections, but some of them I think will be attended to in the final design, whereas others can be solved though skinning. I´m quite pleased with the reactions so far I have to say, I expected worse. Where is this topic where everyone is displeased with the new design? I can´t find it..? | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11728805.284) as reply to (11728805.281) | |
| To: Tjikki | 16.8.2008 at 21:17 | ||
| I havent bin following this tread.
But in denmark we are hoping for a new color. Like This. An un-green Hattrick?? Man, have you had too many elephant beers? | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11728805.288) as reply to (11728805.286) | |
| To: Julen | 16.8.2008 at 21:19 | ||
| you pbb mean this thread, in the end they were complaining/discussing about the use of flash and how it could affect the use of mobile devices to access HT: (11718558.357)
Oh, that one. Well, that was based on the assumption that we are going to make more use of Flash than today, which we are not going to do. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11728805.289) as reply to (11728805.287) | |
| To: Tjikki | 16.8.2008 at 21:19 | ||
| :P i dont say that, but more colors. It would make the design more happy. I think the design is sad. The design now say hello.
The new say goodbye. a new colour would make it say OMG im sexy. x) Hehe, maybe a sexy skin then :) | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11751861.6) as reply to (11751861.5) | |
| To: Everyone | 2008-08-23 at 14:04 | ||
| We will be looking to give community content more visibility on the site. In the first version of the redesign things will not be that different from how they are today, though, but it is something we have discussed and which has "a place" in the new design, where it had no really good place before.
AHP needs to be rethought. It is more or less hidden on the site today, which is why the ad it had on the front page was so important. Unfortunately, this led to the ad being quite misused, since everyone wanted the top spot all the time. I don´t think it is fair to blame poor Cartoon United for anything, implementing that has not taken many hours in the grand scheme of things. | |||
| From: | HT-Johan | (11751861.13) as reply to (11751861.7) | |
| To: Catalyst2950 | 23.8.2008 at 16:06 | ||
| Do you plan on making HT a bit more "social"? There's a potential for some kind of a social network here.
| |||
| From: | HT-Tjecken | (11842273.10) as reply to (11842273.1) | |
| To: JNorRock | 12.9.2008 at 13:13 | ||
| I'm just curious. How/When are we going to see the new design? does anyone know? Are we going to come to the site and will it look different before we even log in or are we going to come see everything as normal log in and BAM! everything changes? can anyone give me some insight as to how it will go down? will the HT let us know when the "change" will happen or will it be a surprise?
A rough schedule (but I can't give any specific dates) looks like this: You've seen two examples (screenshots) of the new design. You will also get to see other examples soon. When the new design is done (all pages transfered/built), we will let stage users test it. After the test phase is completed, the new design will be releases for everyone. We will inform you in advance when the design will change, so you're prepared for it. A rough estimation would be that the new design will be released within 2-3 months, so we're not that far way. | |||
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